Proofing Stage
Proofing Stage examines the origins, progress, struggles, and setbacks of entrepreneurs through the lens of its founders, who, among other things, have run a bagel business for the past 8 years.
Join us, as we share wins and cautionary tales from that space between “atta girl” and “I told you so!” Co-hosted by Joan Kanner and Michelle Bond, with Season 1 contributions by Amanda Schwarz.
Proofing Stage
Roadshow Part II: A Tale of Three Cities
The level of difficulty is slowly intensifying for the BUB crew as they embark on new formats and increasingly longer Roadshow stops from 2021-2023. From overcoming obstacles like staffing shortages and supply chain shortfalls to equipment breakdowns, team injuries and illness, the gnarly bits of taking the bagel show on the road abound.
But, as Amanda and BUB's co-founders discuss, there are community connections and piles of scrumptious bagels, lox and sandwiches to make the trip(s) worthwhile. Episode 8 includes highlights from the likes of Cohoes, NY, Columbus, OH and Cedar Rapids, IA. Each with its own personality and flavor, these locations make the Roadshow an unmatched experience for Bottoms Up Bagels and communities alike.
As always, we're a-learnin' and a-sharin':
- Don't let them see you sweat
- Do follow through on your promises
- Don't try lifting heavy equipment
- Do honor peoples' loyalty
- Don't use vendors you can't rely on
- Do bring a film crew (whenever possible)
- Don't eat salad from ______ restaurant in Cedar Rapids, IA
- Do calibrate your production to meet demand
- Don't underestimate what you've learned
- Do be a respectful Away Team
- Don't forget you're still the expert - no matter where you go
- Do be thankful for the yeses (as much as the noes)
- Don't miss out on local color
- Do leave them wanting more
Faux Sponsor, "Bakers4Bakers4Bakers"
- written and performed by Joan Kanner
Theme music by Thorn Haze
Additional music by: VITOVI (via Pixabay)
Additional music by: saavane (via Pixabay)
Artwork by Lisa Orye
Links:
Boffo Bagel Business for Pop Up in Cohoes (article)
Baltimore’s Bottoms Up Bagels Pops Up in Columbus (article)
New Jersey bagel shop to hold pop-ups at NewBo City Market, Marion (article; ignore the delightful typo)
The BUB Roadshow video (Lonely Planet's version featuring Iowa)
Nominate Your Town
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Amanda 00:00
The views and opinions expressed on this podcast are our own. The pod also contains explicit language and occasional references to mature content and themes. To review our full notice and disclaimer, please visit our website at proofingstage.com.
Joan 00:18
Hey everyone, welcome to Proofing Stage. I'm Joan Kanner.
Amanda 00:22
I'm Amanda Schwarz.
Michelle: 00:23
And I'm Michelle Bond. This is Proofing Stage, episode 8. Roadshow Part II: A Tale of Three Cities.
Amanda: 00:32
How many locations have you visited?
Joan: 00:35
Enough to fill the back of a t-shirt, which I think should be what most people aspire to do, regardless of what it is, whether it's going to different locations or doing different things. Just think how much spacing do I need for a back of a t-shirt to be filled? Go with that.
Amanda:
Perfect.
Michelle: 00:49
I think you had seven. Some of them were Testing the Waters events and some were larger events.
AmandaHost00:54
Let's get it started. Let's start in Cohoes. Why are we talking about Cohoes? What is it about this particular stop that you wanted to make sure that this was the first thing you talked about?
Joan 01:04
Timeline-wise, it was 2021. The Bub Hub Beta was rocking and rolling, in spite of it being pandemic time, because at that point we had all been vaxed. Having been stifled for a couple years, because we had, again, like Bozeman was in 2019, right? And we, through that overall success, we wanted to do it [BUB Roadshow] again and any planning for 2020 went out the window. But come 2021, we had more data. That's really important to us in terms of where there's growth, places that are healthy for workers, what's the transportation like, what's the cost of living? Is it someplace that kind of fits with the general vibe of BUB? And one place that came up was Cohoes, New York.
Michelle 01:47
Yeah, by this point, we had started to develop a criteria. You know, more of a formulaic way of doing this - a way to take the dozen cities that we would be looking at at any given time and start to narrow it down by what might be a fit, what might be a good place to partner with. Where do we have a gatekeeper that we have access to? You know, sometimes it's just like, oh, I have friends that live in a place and they work for these organizations and they know somebody who they get into… You know, like a lot of things happen. Sometimes we were going in coal through the food connections that either you know, we followed on Instagram, or places that we admired what they were doing. So, it took a little bit of slew thing to find what might be the way to get some traction in a particular place, and so we started to apply that, and one of the things that Joan had noticed early on about Cohoes was how they were growing during COVID.
Michelle 02:36
It's not a story that you were hearing in a lot of places or hadn't come to hear yet, and so she [Joan] was also attracted to the economic development landscape there, where there was clearly an influx of people moving to these bedroom communities. What had typically been, maybe places that didn't have as much going on compared to larger cities in the region, like Cohoes, is in the capital region. So, Troy, Albany, you know, those are the places that you may have heard about, but what are the places where people are living that are commuting to work in those other areas? And so, Cohoes had put a lot of resources into sustainability effort. At one point their what their mills like were the largest in the world in terms of generating energy.
Joan 03:20
And so, yeah, just products. So, they have the second largest falls. See, they got to me. I'm already quoting different [Cohoes] history. I have to say that they primed us before the event with being, like you know… “we have the second largest falls in all of the US, second only to Niagara.” “You've had different native peoples, like four different tribal nations, gathered there at one point…
Joan 03:39
“…It was a really meaningful event in their history.” And, by their really innovative way of thinking and them being small but mighty, there were way too many parallels with our business, Bottoms Up Bagels and what they were trying to do, saying like “we're a best kept secret, you don't know how good you have it.”
Joan 03:55
Another thing about them, practically speaking, is that the bagels they have there are more of like a Dunkin Donuts or like other places that may not produce their [own] stuff. So, there's a massive niche there and even if there were another place there selling bagels that were of quality, the fact remains so many people were moving in and then the amenities could not keep up with the people there. But to Michelle's point about like innovation and their thinking, they were also going “well, we used to be like a mill town and we had like ways of generating energy, but now another way of generating energy that is sustainable as well, besides water, is solar.” So they're doing floating solar projects and developing that. So, we're like “you're really trying to like make a splash in the world and show you're not just a bedroom community for former New Yorkers and you're also like not going to be some random like runt child compared to Albany and Troy.”
Michelle 04:43
Yeah, and you know it's not a place that you think about. It's not like a Silicon Valley, or even what we're talking about with Bozeman in the prior episode, but the same idea. You know we started [with] some of these offices that are looking at attracting new business to their area. Best case scenario, there are incentives for that there. You know, there are tax credits, there are local investors that they'll put you in touch with local landowners, and so you know we weren't quite there yet, but the first step was again a “yes,” somebody who saw [us and thought] “oh, this is a really creative thing that this business is doing.”
05:17
And while we have local businesses we're supporting, what would it take to just have an event like this? Even if it doesn't lead to a long-term thing? Does it put us on somebody else's radar? Does it bring regional traffic to our town that may not have been there otherwise? Is it something to be excited and proud as a way to show off your town? You know all those kinds of things. So all of those boxes got checked when it came to Cohoes. And you know we're in our first year-ish at the BUB Hub while this is happening, and you know I'm just trying to figure out the operational pieces and keep a regular business going, I mean, as is Joan, but she's also out there, you know, in our courtyard having conference calls after the shop is closed with people in these city offices, to keep this kind of larger vision something that we're also working towards, even if we couldn't do it right away.
Joan 06:02
And I thought that, unlike 2019, we're in like our own space - there's like the less disruption. We learned from our internal mistakes that came to supporting the roadshow in 2019. Here we have, like both, more staff, but we're also in our own space and we're training people up differently and we have more of an operations backbone to be able to support things going on in two different places. And then we also have a larger team to be able to bring people with us. As folks may remember from the prior episode, [it was] just me and Michelle going to Bozeman while other people worked on in Baltimore, in a shared kitchen - very chaotic. So this could all be different. So, we definitely are trying to lay groundwork in a more significant way, not just with the city, but internally for the business.
Amanda 06:36
How did it all work out? Was it better, was it worse?
Joan 06:39
We started talking to Cohoes earlier in 2021 and we weren't able to get anything on the books not [due to] anything negative, just like planning. What made sense for them and we had to go up to Cohoes and do a site visit is as part of our process and see where we'd be able to both sell and to be able to produce, and by the time we were able to establish both places it couldn't be, unfortunately, one in the same. Sometimes we're able to like produce the same place where we can sell, but ultimately, we had to get stuff set and we can do stuff right before Thanksgiving, which is a great time and place to do something special in the community, not get in the way with what people normally do for their holidays and enjoy the cold.
Michelle 07:20
By this point, we're grooving in terms of production. We really knew what we needed and so, recognizing that this is something that we were going to drive to, that we were going to be able to bring more of our supplies and things we didn't have to worry too much about sourcing and all that. But the biggest thing was finding a production space, and having some city contacts at this place was really great. We went up there. They toured us through a couple of different places that might work, found the most likely spot being this church that had a community kitchen that was used, but it seems like our hours wouldn't conflict with theirs, and so they put us in touch and we worked out an agreement with them.
Michelle 07:57
The second component was where we're going to sell. We got in touch with some local property owners who had some inactivated spaces, so it turned out that there was a retail space that wasn't being used. Those property owners were excited about activating it, even just on a short term. It was right on the main drag, so it was going to bring a lot of people to a place that they were looking to rent. So those mutually beneficial ways of approaching it are something that we really relied on, and of course not everybody can see that, but for people who can, it definitely creates a win-win.
Amanda 08:33
For Cohoes, you've got staff coming with you. Then how many people are coming?
Michelle 08:37
So, I think we had planned on maybe five total…
Amanda
Oh, wow.
Michelle
…including us two and then three other people. And so, mapping that out, budgeting it.
Amanda
Budgeting it and all that, yeah.
Michelle
Yeah, and just bringing folks along. The difference is, at this point we had grown quite a bit. We had staff that had been with us about six months at this point, so they didn't even know of the past experience [2019 Roadshow]. They knew this as part of our business model and something that we were striving to do and something that we were looking at places for. So, it was part of the suite of things we did, which was kind of cool. We really tried to approach even just scheduling with our team for even just their regular shift, like how many hours are you looking for? What are the ideal days? Like, to really just have that humanity built into those pieces. I'm not trying to be like “we're amazing,” but just like practical things that a lot of times in food business don't exist. It's like - “this is the shift, these are the hours, like it or don't.” And we really tried to be like is this something you would be interested in? Obviously, we needed bakers, we needed a retail person. Like I said, at this time I think we had about 10 people total. So, we had some flexibility.
Michelle 09:41
We weren't yet sure if we were going to keep the BUB Hub open while we did this. In an ideal world we would, but we were looking at like strain on the team and in all those kinds of things, so it took us a while to figure out what that combination of folks would be. The intention was to have five folks on the ground to be able to do this. Because it's, unlike shop hours at this time. It's pretty constant. There's like production constantly because it's a sell-out model, because we're not baking in the same place where we're selling. So, it's like, make as much as possible, having no idea what the demand's going to be, right? Are people going to want half dozens and dozens [of bagels]? Are they going to want just sandwiches? And really trying to adjust the production schedule based on that. So, these are all educated guesses that we were making and trying to staff up the best way that we could.
Joan 10:29
And knowing that like it was a time of not too much travel for people and Cohoes actually is a very interesting place in the whole capital region. If you haven't been there definitely go. There’s a lot of history and stuff to do. So, you can say, “well, it's not like it's Honolulu.” I’m like, “well no, no it's not - it's not trying to be that.” So, we also thought that would be a benefit for some people just to be someplace different, given that we had been on lockdown for so long.
Michelle 10:58
So, we were planning this in July. We nailed it down end of September and we decided we needed at least kind of six weeks to put it all together. So, the event was going to be - as Joan said - in the middle of November, the week before Thanksgiving. And at this time, we were going through a lot of staffing changes. So, while we had been priming the team that we had and we had some new folks that were onboarded already, we also had a couple of new people coming in. We had our first in-role manager come on board. There were also a lot of changes happening in the world in general, with people's schedules, like things were opening up. So, a lot of the team that had been with us during COVID now had other activities that they were doing outside of work, and so they're just - the dynamics were shifting a lot. There started to be some discord just internally in our team, and so we had been having some team meetings around that and - long story short - a couple of folks decided that they weren't going to continue on with us at all.
11:56
This is also at the time when Cohoes is starting. One of the great things about being there is we had a connection, our point of contact in the city. They made a connection to their communications team. That actually started to yield a lot of opportunities to get earned media even advance of us going to Cohoes. So, I'm doing a radio spot about this, sending press releases out and, given especially it being a small town, this was really interesting to people and they wanted to talk about it. So, we're talking about it, we're running things in Baltimore, we're planning for this event, and then we're also starting to lose staff in Baltimore at the same time.
Amanda
Yikes. Yeah.
Michelle 12:38
And in some cases, we got notice and in some cases we didn't get notice, as is in food.
It's not uncommon, it's not uncommon anywhere these days to be ghosted [by staff]. But we're really trying to do our best to attend to the needs of the team while also keep our commitments to this thing that is gaining traction. And also, now that we've made promises to people, we have agreements and we're going to be supporting this kitchen, we're also going to be supporting this inactivated space. We're also going to be there certain days. And now the city itself has in some way, shape or form, put its resources forward to spend time talking to us, to help us plan, to put us in touch with their contacts in the media and stuff, so we also don't want to cause them to lose face by letting them down. So, we're trying to balance all of these things. And, long story short, we're about a week out from the event. We've already decided that we're actually going to close the shop while we do this event, and we've also decided that there's a lot going on. We're also going to give the team the following week off paid, which would be the week of Thanksgiving.
Amanda
Oh, wow.
Michelle 13:38
Because, it's a weird week anyway, we could all use it. So, we'll do this event, We'll go hard in the paint and then everybody will get the next week off.
Amanda
[laughs] Yeah.
Michelle
That's the plan. By the time that we actually were getting on the road, closing the shop on Sunday, about to be closed in Baltimore for two weeks and about to get on the road that night to start this event in Cohoes by Tuesday we had lost about a third of our team. We had had three people leave within like a week and a half period, which when your team of 10 is…
Amanda
… substantial. Yeah.
Michelle 14:13
And so, we're trying to both triage mentally and emotionally with the folks who are left and also figure out how we're going to pull this thing off. And, of course, none of this we're sharing with anybody because, you know again, never let them see you sweat and also kind of keep your dirty laundry in the house.
Amanda
Mmm, hmmm.
Michelle
But trying to figure out - okay, is this doable? How is it doable? And with the folks we have left, like how is it going to still be fair to them, right? Like how is it not going to make their life a living hell by taking on more than is fair or expected?
Amanda 14:44
You're in a pinch to put it like yeah.
Michelle
[laughs]
Michelle 14:49
Well and this is also, you know, it's 2021 fall. The great resignation is really starting, like that's with all this is part of that timing. There's just a lot of people blowing things up…
Amanda
Yeah.
Michelle
… and I, you know, per usual, I'm like, “oh God, I mean, I don't want to back out, but practically, how are we going to do this? How are we going to do it well? How are we going to be fair to everybody involved? I don't think it's possible.” And Joan, in her own stand and deliver moment.
Amanda
Oh, boy.
Michelle 15:21
No, but I mean she's always bringing it back to the end user. You know she's always bringing it back to people who deserve more and better and people who are counting on us. And you know, if there's any way, shape or form we can make it happen, it's worthwhile to do.
Joan 15:35
I mean it was still for the business. I mean, ultimately, I feel like we had to make it happen for the business, but there are way too many people committed to having this be a successful event in ways that transcended anything that was even possible in Bozeman. Additionally, we were not going to be the back of the house - people serving breakfast - like we were in Bozeman. We were going to be front and center in every way. Per Michelle’s earlier point she was doing interviews ahead of time with radio stations. We were going to be having TV crews unfortunately but fortunately document us prepping but also, like during the sales days, be there. We had meetings with the city and when it came to our Baltimore team members, the ones who stayed loyal, it was very important to acknowledge them, because it's rough like having colleagues leave, whether or not, no matter what your relationship with them was or wasn't.
Joan 16:25
It means that stuff may fall on you. So, we were really trying to put an okay face forward with the public in Cohoes, and even in Baltimore for that matter, as being a cool, exciting thing, while still acknowledging the losses and the impact on them and on us and - good, bad or indifferent - Michelle and I might take more on in those moments and good, bad or indifferent. I think mostly bad…
Joan 16:51
… in some ways, I really couldn't process what was happening in the world, what that meant for the staff, what it meant about their leaving. Was it personal what they were saying and doing, or was it just mistaking us for Jeff Bezos? I mean, it was like a really odd mix of cultural things going on. At the same time, we had to keep things moving and keep the lights on, now in two different places. And it also was a time of just these other impediments, and that included having our 60-quart mixer in Baltimore completely flatline
Amanda
Oh…
Joan
…or whatever the fucking equivalent is. I don't know. I don't repair equipment, I just use it. You know, and I honor the people that do. God bless the people that we got our equipment from.
Joan 17:31
Like, they're also a great repair people really honest and good folks. And they are just like “well, we don't have a 60-quart to lend you.” It’s almost like when your car is getting fixed, you get a rental or a loaner car. They had a smaller mixer which impacted the amount of food we can produce. Well, it was a 30-quart, right? Michelle?
Michelle
Yeah.
Amanda 17:49
Yeah, I remember you talking about the 30-quart at your last location. Yeah, that does change things a bit. Much better to have the 60, but I mean it was something. At least it was better than nothing.
Michelle 17:59
So that was also like amidst this time when, like, our team is shorter staffed, then there's also the person who is now doing almost all of the baking is now having to like, do double the effort in some ways by getting this done. This was a person who was supposed to be also coming with us to Cohoes, who actually also ended up leaving before we went, you know.
Amanda 18:18
Oh…
Joan
Really proximate [to the event in Cohoes]
Michelle 18:18
So, there was just like a lot of things happening at the same time.
Joan
How much notice did we get for that one baker?
Michelle 18:25
Oh, three days.
Joan
Three days, yeah.
Michelle
But at least we got three days. You know, we've gotten much less.
Joan
[laughs]
Michelle
So, we decide we're going to press on and close the shop on the Sunday. We're loading everything up. One of our team members who was coming with us ends up getting injured while we're loading the van.
Amanda
Oh…
Joan
Yeah, the rental van.
And he's also, I should mention like - he's more of a front-of-the-house person who also is great at like sourcing ingredients and just an all-around good character, but like could not assist us with the prep part. Separately we had to rent equipment, because United Church of Cohoes has a lot of cool stuff in it, but they don't have bagel making-specific equipment or enough refrigeration for us. So, we were renting at a time when fuel costs were off the hee-zee [hook]. At least Michelle found a good company for us to use and they drove it up there for us, but we would have to use our own mixer [loaner 30-quart].
Michelle 19:21
Yeah, and that's part of our process is also, of course, like trying to find things locally to rent and source to avoid some of those charges and different scenarios. If we're renting equipment locally, we don't have fuel costs, but if this person isn't reliable, I mean that's what it. Because we were so I mean this would have been the case anyway. But because we were so short staffed, it became very crucial that we knew what we were going to have. Like we knew we were going to have the things that we needed, because we didn't really have any margin for error. Originally when we started planning this like the face people and talking to customers and talking to vendors and doing all that kind of stuff, like we were now becoming essential to making the bagels again. So that really ties up. It just ties you up. So that's why a lot of these, even interviews and stuff we were going to be doing, were now being done as we're like under pressure to get this batch going, you know. So, these things are compounding. That happens with every roadshow to a certain degree, but there was just more of them in this case.
Michelle 20:17
But we did, we got the equipment that we needed. You know, in there and because of the injury to our team member who thankfully was okay. But you know it did involve several hours at an urgent care.
Amanda
Oh, God.
Joan
… maybe some stitches.
Amanda
[groan]
Michelle
And deciding whether or not we would proceed so and making sure he was okay and all that. So we got it. We were a day behind getting going too. So you know, once we got up there and got situated we felt better. But then you know all the normal things but like it's winter in a cold city and so in a basement kitchen. How dry is the air? How do we need to modulate the temperature? You know the time for, for dough right? Like where in Montana it's taking less time because it's higher altitude and the yeast is going nuts. In a very dry area it could take up to twice as much time to proof because it's cold and dry and we're trying to regulate the heat kind of in smaller areas. But you know that's also, that's part of the process.
Amanda 21:16
So, did the 30-quart rental [mixer] come with you?
Michelle 21:20
It did. Yeah.
Amanda
Wow.
Michelle
Oh, the other thing that happened. So we had moving people on the Baltimore end scheduled to load stuff and then we had people on the New York end scheduled to unload so that we could save. We didn't, we didn't have to have all of our equipment transported, we could transport some of it. And that moving company ghosted us. That, that was the other thing that happened.
Michelle 21:45
So, it was like around the same time of our person getting hurt, and then we're like, okay, well, we still got to get this mixer. Load the mixer. It's so heavy it can't be loaded by - if you don't have like a dolly or a correct thing. Like it's not going to be loaded by Joan and I, or even us and another team member. So, then we realized we were ghosted and I tried to get a hold of the moving person and in the end they weren't coming. So, we now we're trying to find somebody with a pallet jack. We're trying to find a way to just like get this mixer in the frickin’ van, because that's the one thing we absolutely need. You know, we went to other local businesses and we borrowed hand trucks. We still we didn't have the strength to move it that way. So, in the end we actually ended up negotiating with the person that we were renting separate equipment from to stop by the store, collect our mixer, which was our loaner mixer, and bring it up with the other stuff.
Joan 22:44
But wait, guys, there was one positive thing. When we were losing staff left, right and sideways, this is truly is a dear friend. My friend, patty, who I worked with 20 years prior, had some time on her hands. She was in-between jobs and she's like “I can totally help you” and we definitely needed maybe a little bit less so front of house help, but we need, definitely need some prep help and we had worked together in a combination sporting type of - how can I put this? It was a part dual skating rink, so an arena in that way, and also related to a minor league baseball team in Jersey. And we became friends, I think, just based on common interest, but also based on seeing how well each other worked. We just were really hard workers and we stayed in touch that whole time and she ended up working out great. She can compound cream cheese like a mofo.
Amanda
[laughs]
Joan 23:41
I hope she added that to her resume, even though it's completely unrelated to the HR work that she does today. But you just got to put that in there somewhere. You know, it's like learning Mandarin.
Amanda
Mmm, hmmm. Mmm, hmmm.
Joan
Just put that in there as an extra thing. So, Patty, so we flew her up. Of course, you know having that freed up, you know, payroll…
Michelle
[laughs]
Joan
… we can like pay to have her fly up from DC, right? I’m just trying to see all the silver linings.
Amanda
You got the budget now. Yeah, I guess.
Michelle
Yeah.
Amanda 24:04
How many staff members do you have with you? I mean, are the injured among you also with you, or like what's happening there?
Michelle
Thankfully yes.
Joan 24:14
No casualties.
Amanda 24:15
Okay, so we went from, I mean like is he present with you or did he stay home?
Michelle 24:19
No, I mean we, we, we gave him that opportunity and truly, he ended up taking a day and then coming up…
Amanda
Incredible.
Michelle
…and being such a trooper. But it was just the three of us, I mean…
Joan
… and then Patty.
Michelle
…and then Patty.
Amanda
Yeah, Patty.
Michelle
So, we ended up being a team of four, where we had hoped to be a team of five or six. So, in the end it was definitely like we definitely felt that pinch, but it was “manageable” in quotes.
Amanda 24:43
Well better than just the two of you, and that's it, yeah, with press and all of that? It could have been a lot worse.
Michelle
Yeah, I don't think. I mean, I think that's where we really wouldn't have been able to do it. I think we would have had just had to call uncle.
Amanda 24:56
And it went all smoothly from there, right? All smooth.
Michelle 24:59
Um, actually, compared to other places, it actually did.
Amanda
Nice!
Michelle
Um, yeah.
Joan 25:08
I mean there's always like the basics you can expect. Michelle and I have a decent algorithm. We have like a decent calculus for what to provide during, like a soft open day, like the first day in terms of production. It's a calculated guess to see how much food you'd need and how quickly you can get through a line. And then you also have to have in mind the setup that you have in your sales space, specifically to see, like, how you can maximize it. It's cold at that point of the year and working [how] people [can] like stay inside and wait in line. So, we just had to, like every day, adjust our production…
Michelle
… like calibrate.
Joan
Just calibrate. So that, to me, is like not only a problem, but it's something that, in doing such a thing, you need to be mindful of.
Michelle 25:45
And it's tricky because it's always like the quote unquote “good problem” of selling out and but we're there for a limited time and we want to max out our production because obviously financially that's beneficial, but you also don't want somebody to wait in line for an hour and not get something. And so, you know it's managing those expectations and, as Joan said, you know, we try to always have a soft open day so that we can get a sense of, like, what people want, what flavors they're looking for. The biggest thing, as I said earlier, is that ratio of bulk sales to sandwiches, because that really, I mean, think about it - if you're making, everybody there is ordering a sandwich, six bagels feed six people, right? If everybody there is ordering a half dozen, six bagels feed one person, you know? And that math really quickly gets out of hand.
Michelle 26:35
And that's something that we were used to constantly managing, even in Baltimore, you know, because any given day somebody might want something different. But when we're doing Roadshows it’s also a matter of the culture of an area, and in a place like Cohoes, like, we had a pretty strong assumption that people were going to be expecting bulk - a) because it was less expensive, it could feed more people for less money and b) you know you want to try our stuff. You haven't had good bagels, you haven't had a bakery where you could just go and get a sack of bagels, so that that assumption, you know, carried through and I mean we were selling out very quickly, like before 9am.
Amanda 27:11
Wow, and what time were you opening.
Michelle 27:13
Seven?
Joan
I think it was seven. We had the parameter around only selling like half a dozen [bagels]. So, to Michelle's point about how long you can stretch stuff. And we were working as fast as we could. I don't even know if the addition of another a set of hands, would have gotten us much quicker through the line. Because you need to assess the order, make sure they have their coffee, make sure things are accurate, things take time to finish off and cook. The layout was the best thing we could have gotten to. I was mindful of how we were losing people [customers] with different kind of schedules where you couldn't wait in line for an hour or whatever the time line was. I forgot what the ticket time was. I mean my time. Actually, ticket time was great. Ticket times they were from like five to seven minutes, meaning like when you. The best thing you can be in control of is like when you put in your order, when you get your order, that's the one thing I can't control.
Amanda
That's ticket time?
Joan 28:01
That’s ticket time.
Amanda
Okay.
Joan
Like how yeah, like when people put your order in and then you get your order and like, and it's, god willing, accurate, you can get out the door, but I can't control how many people line up that day. But it was neat to also hear the stories of people who were waiting in line, maybe not from Cohoes, but from a surrounding area and people who were Cohoes natives were there in line with them and saying, actually check out this place on the block and pick up like some really neat greeting cards or go over here and get yourself something on Friday night. So that was something that the people from City Hall were reflecting back to us - was that positivity in line and getting the word out about their community.
Michelle 28:37
Absolutely. They saw it as an event that really brought people to their city. And for the people who could wait in line you know they're - the line was literally stretched like two blocks, I think at one point, and yeah, I mean it was just insane.
Joan 28:53
To City Hall. It was backed up to City Hall,
Amanda
Wow.
Michelle
But people were so excited they were like: “How did you, why did you come to Cohoes?” And, like you know, it was just like this feel of like, “oh you, you chose me.” You know, like and that goes back to the like [earlier episode] “I Was Addicted to the Drug,” right? Like this idea of not only getting, making money and not only getting customer feedback, but like helping people feel that thing, helping people feel like, “oh, wow, this is like. This is like a spark in my day that I may not have had.” Like to be that spark is amazing. It's amazing.
Michelle 29:27
But then, as soon as we sold out, like then we'd be like running back to the church just trying to make, like, can we make another batch today? Can we make another two to three batches then we made this morning? And then we were also juggling like we're trying to take pre-orders for a while so that people, we wouldn't disappoint people. But then you get into like half, half of your production haul is pre-orders and then it cut, really cuts down on your offering for just people who are going to show up. So, you know, a lot of those kinks were getting worked out on this Roadshow too, whereas, like, we kind of got away from that in future events.
Joan 29:59
And we had. I should mention we did have regulars in Cohoes. People like Heidi, people like Heidi with the really cool frames.
Amanda
[laughs]
Michelle
[laughs]
Joan
I would see them line and I would call her out. I’d be like “those are some fierce frames, Heidi!”
Michelle
Oh, and Evelyn.
Joan
Oh, Evelyn was bomb. She'd be reading, like she'd be first or second in line, like reading her book, and I'm just like “who are you, mysterious woman?”
Michelle 30:18
She still emails us, which is really email us for the holidays this year. Yeah, it was very sweet.
Amanda 30:24
So why are you not living in Cohoes now? Just wondering, like what?
Michelle
[laughs]
Joan
[laughs]
Michelle 30:29
Oh, we were working on it for a while.
Amanda
Yeah?
Michelle
At least from a location, from a shop standpoint.
Joan 30:34
Yeah, it seemed like very viable. We kept in touch with the city and just had a more of a pulse on like the real estate in the area. But still, all the time later, nothing is gelled.
Michelle 30:43
Things take time.
Joan 30:45
And we, since we missed out other people from my prior point, people who couldn't wait in line or couldn't get someone to wait for them we ended up doing a pre-order event in the spring, so this [initial] event was in November, and in March we came back just to like hand out stuff one evening. We chose a day that most people have less stuff going on, a Monday, and we chose to do after traditional work hours to have people just pick up a sack of bagels and lox or brisket or other divine things that we make. And that was a really cool event to touch some of the people and have them get what they want. We wouldn't be sold out, we would just simply pre-make this stuff and just hand it out, and we did that in the spring.
Amanda 31:25
So, you did that the spring of this past year, or?
Joan 31:28
2022.
Amanda 31:29
2022, okay.
Michelle 31:30
So the [first] event was fall ‘21. We did this [pre-order/pick-up] event in spring ‘22 as a way to both stay in touch but, as Joan said, reach some of the people we didn't reach and we set up a whole ordering site just for them with like packages so that, you know, it would be worthwhile for us. There was a certain dollar amount that we knew we could get, but also that you know when the orders closed we also had to. We just knew what we had to make and then package it all, bring it up there the same day, and so it was. So, then we were just handing off stuff to people you know cold items here, you know, room temperature here and then had a chance to interact with some folks. And then what surprised me there is that it was mostly people who didn't attend the pop-up. It was mostly people who had heard about it. So, we got to meet a whole bunch of new people, which was great, and then see some you know regulars and it was just nice to reconnect.
Amanda 32:21
So, you took the pre-orders, you made them in BUB Hub Beta in Baltimore and drove them up that same day to Cohoes.
Joan 32:26
Which involved some people who didn't make it to Cohoes with us, like some loyal team members who just didn't want to travel, and also like some new person, like we had a rainbow baby that we hired after losing all those people in the spring.
Amanda
[laughs] Oh, God.
Joan 32:39
She got a second chance [with a] a rainbow baby.
Amanda 32:41
Wow, yep. Mmm, hmmm.
Joan 32:43
You can use that. You can use that. Metaphor. Yeah, I think people need to use it when it comes to HR going forward. You're welcome.
Amanda 32:54
Have you been back since these events? Do you intend on going back? Because it sounds like you kind of have a soft spot for these folks.
Michelle 33:03
We do and we have. And I mean the way that we always talk about the Roadshow, and it's very much true, is by the time we're like at a place doing an event we've already gathered enough information to know it would probably be pretty promising for a spot, I'll say with the exception of Bozeman, just because it was like a different kind of scenario. Fast forwarding just a little bit by the time we're going to like in Iowa, or something like, we're already talking to a real estate agent, you know sneaking in property visits after hours and stuff like that. And that's very true of Cohoes. So, we've been in talks, you know, we've been looking at properties, we've been talking with people up there. Things do take time to unfold and same like as in Baltimore, and so we've just been trying to seek out good fits in multiple places and see what's going to be the best direction for going forward.
Joan 33:54
I mean, we still would want to own in a place like Cohoes as people who’ve... If you have been listening, follow along on our trajectory.
Amanda 34:02
Check out episode six. So, rewind and you know, once you're done here, head over there and you can learn more about what BUB's been through in terms of renting versus the aspiration to own. So, you know head over there.
Joan 34:17
Yeah, because a lot of the potential buildings on some of the main drives of Cohoes are owned by the same people. They're more than willing to have your rent and I am more than willing to not repeat that mistake.
Michelle 34:30
I've talked to several people, though, even entertaining a short-term rental if we had a longer- term place that we were building out. So, there are lots of things in the mix, but nothing to really report on just yet.
Amanda 34:47
I have been living in Ohio for now. My oldest reminded me it's closer to four years now, three and a half years, so I was very excited to hear that you had been up north a bit, in Columbus, and when we were talking in prep, I was not aware, though it makes complete sense, that there are a lot of different products that get tested in of all places Columbus, Ohio. Tell me more.
Joan 35:12
Well, it has been known as Test City, USA. Historically and basically, the demographics of Columbus seem to mirror the U.S. as a whole. So, if you want to get a mini-U.S. to test your restaurant or other concept, it's not a bad place to go to.
Michelle 35:28
Yeah, and they have certainly many food concepts have started there, many production plants that manufacturers that actually make products have started there. There's a good cross section of income and demographic and background in the area, which we learned as we did our initial research. It initially just got on our radar because we wanted to move further into the middle of the country. We knew of, I think, like a friend's brother who lived there and just got a little bit of like sense of what's going on in the food scene, and then we just started our search for kitchens. You know it's one of the first events we did after moving out of BUB Hub Beta and so we were able to really tighten our process, really formalize many of our operations. That's something that was really important to us, with a little bit more time to be able to write a lot of SOPs like write a lot of workflows, get our, all of our information organized.
Michelle 36:26
Because, again, building the bike and riding it for almost seven years at that point, it was just really hard to transfer that knowledge. It was really hard to bring people easily up to speed. It was a huge drain on our time and resources to be reinventing the wheel over and over again. I mean things you know, as a person striving for efficiency, that don't make sense, and yet you don't have time to stop and actually like build a foundation, and so a lot of what we were doing in the latter half of 2022 was putting this foundation in place. That should have been there for years, but we just, like many entrepreneurs, just weren't able to do it. And so all that is to say that, by the time that we're working on the roadshow in the winter and spring of 2023, we have as close to a well-oiled machine, I think, as we can for the planning part of this process. And so the scouting of different locations leading us to Columbus and having, for the first time, I think, ever, a wealth of production facilities to explore to see, you know, what would be the best fit for a short term event.
Joan 37:33
For sure. And I do want to touch on the fact that we in this case, since well, BUB Hub Beta was closed, we didn't have any regular staff per se. I mean, we knew that for a fact now, versus at the end like losing people. So, we'd have to have ways of being able to train up people quickly, for local hires. And then that's great to be able to get a local hire because they know the community. They give you a sense of who there would be to hire when you have a BUB Hub there.
Amanda 37:58
So, you're not just testing your concept at that point right, or testing the environment, but you're testing systems that you have now documented and seeing how well all of that kind of comes together. This really is the ultimate task.
Joan 38:15
Yeah, like replication is an important thing. Let's see if we could take all the knowledge and the learnings that we had from our operations consultant that we were working with and really just break it.
Michelle 38:25
And we also had a contractor working with us, BUB, during this time to really help focus on really testing out the stuff for the Roadshow. As we're all working collaboratively to write these job descriptions and put them out there. And making inroads with not only local development offices at this point but, like Department of Labor, culinary schools that might have folks who need internship hours, like in different regions. So really, yeah, like if we're going to like open a business in any of these locations, it's all the same stuff that you would need to do, but we're just doing it for a much shorter period of time.
Amanda
How long were you on Columbus?
Michelle.
Two weeks, two and a half weeks.
Amanda
Two weeks.
Joan 39:06
Yeah, I think it was like, I'll just say, two weeks. I'm not like blanking out in that because it was bad or anything. I just, at that point… We had gone from like doing different site visits and then Columbus and then Iowa, which you'll hear about next, where they kind of flipped order.
Michelle 39:21
Yeah that's right.
Joan
It was supposed to be in Iowa first and then it was Columbus, but, as with anything in life, you have to be flexible. So that's a great time period. And we were able to, thanks to Michelle Bond, seated next to me right now. We were able to get a place to sell out of, because it was looking a little bit sketchy as to where we could [sell out of].
Michelle 39:36
Yeah, and then Columbus. It had this wealth of opportunities to use shared kitchens to produce out of and things like that, but we were having a hard time making inroads from the retail food standpoint. There were a bunch of food halls. Some of them had pop-up spaces, but most of them were for longer than what we needed. We were just trying to figure out what would be the place to actually sell. And because it's like a much larger city than even Baltimore, but certainly than a Cohoes. You're not just kind of walking up to a landlord being like “got a space we can use?” We just weren't finding traction in that way and so we tried to get a little bit more creative.
Michelle 40:19
There was a cocktail bar that was proximate to our Airbnb when we were doing our scouting trip. That it wasn't until we were back in Baltimore. That I'm like “huh, that's a cool, it's a big rectangle. They have the space. They're not open in the morning. Maybe I'm just going to like reach out to them and see if they'd be interested.” I mean, we weren't even considering going to Columbus at this point. We had scouted it. We're like “[the] kitchens are great. but we have no, this is not going to make sense for a Roadshow.” We just haven't, like, found the place yet. So that's why we were moving forward with Iowa. And yeah, I cold reached out to this place and they were receptive and we jumped on the phone and we talked about what it could look like and again they said, “yes,” they saw it as a mutually, but they had only been open a year…
Michelle 41:03
…at that point.
Amanda
Oh, okay.
Michelle
They saw it as a way to bring some interest to their bar and were pretty low key about… Again, this is the thing about also going there with a proven a) we had a track record at this point, b) we had a process so I could answer every question someone was going to ask about how it could work. We had different models for making this work in terms of partnership, so we could proactively offer things that might be exciting, you know, even in terms of now having staff to help with, like set up and clean up and all these kinds of things. So, we ended up producing in a shared kitchen and selling out of a cocktail bar in the mornings for a two-week period of time.
Joan 41:43
About like 10 minutes apart, real easy commute.
Amanda 41:48
Yeah, that's. That's not bad at all. And how's that shared kitchen looking? Because you're not schlepping, you know, all sorts of stuff this time.
Michelle 41:55
Yeah, like we're not bringing a mixer, we're not doing all that stuff, which is great.
Joan 41:58
Exactly. Well, nothing was triggering, Amanda. That's what you were implying from having worked in the shared kitchen for so long.
Amanda
[laughs]
Joan 42:05
Being back in a shared kitchen didn't like freak me out. If anything, I felt like the big sister to some of the businesses in there. And I think we've talked about how people in food need to really see how you work before really approaching or getting to know you. And you need to just really demonstrate by what you do rather than what you say. Through there, like we still have contacts from that kitchen. These were businesses that remind me of our own when were probably just, like you know, two or three years old. [They’re] making everything from amazing sweets to doing some real interesting family meals for people to be able to access food prep, to prepared meals in a way that's more accessible for people with, who are middle class or lower class, which was fascinating to me. There was that chef who we did a whole beautiful bartering thing of… we are working hard and working late and we gave him some bagels and cream cheese for his family and he got us an amazing handmade, massive - but we still destroyed it - chicken pot pie.
Joan 43:07
So, there was just conversations about business and how you're doing, and I really felt very embedded in a really cool community in terms of the businesses who were in that [shared kitchen]. And it was clean. Gotta say that too. It was like immaculate.
Amanda
Hey, all right.
Joan
Ding! Ding! Ding! Ding! Ding! Your food was super safe coming from us in Columbus.
Michelle 43:25
It was well organized in terms of scheduling and I mean there were some things - there was like on the more kind, on the hyper vigilant side, which has its pros and cons, too. But, unlike when we described in [podcast episode] Shared Kitchen Confidential, like we knew what we were walking into, which was extremely important for this event. Because, again, we have such a short timeframe and we don't have a lot of room for errors. And so, to walk in and know you would have a table that was yours, it would be clean, you would have a hot area that was yours, you would have to clean it and allow time for that for next people to come in. So that was really helpful. And, like Joan said, I feel like we were in a rhythm and we were validated both on the customer end, with the people who showed up in droves to buy the stuff, but also, I think, an unexpected benefit, with these other business owners, these other food businesses who were doing the same thing, like they were looking for pop-ups, they were getting into wholesale, they were trying to make the partnership that would give them their next big break. And I remember a lot of like bread baking kind of people were just mystified that we could go on the road and make our product like this. I remember distinctly somebody being like “Oh my God, it just sounds like a nightmare to have to figure out how to do that.” And I, without skipping a beat, said like, finally shifted my mindset from. “This is isn’t something that I have to do, this is something that I get to do.” And that, for me, was like the story of Columbus. It just on all of the cylinders, not to say that it wasn't.
Michelle 44:56
We still had staff that didn't show up. We still had, I mean, there are all of these things, but the prevailing thing was like we got this down enough to bend and sway with those things that are coming at you and we had kind of found the right fit in terms of a place to produce and a place to sell. And it really made all the difference in terms of the smoothness, the excitement, the ability to lean into the parts of the Roadshow that are the reason why we started it, which are: getting to know an area, making relationships with people, learning about what customers want. You know, what are they ordering the most of? What are they excited by?
Michelle 45:34
I remember the first Saturday somebody came in and was like, “Oh my God, I know it's a long shot, but I'm from Maryland and I was looking at your regular menu on your website and do you have Old Bay Bagels?” And like “we didn't make them because we were… like nobody cares about Old Bay in Columbus.”
Amanda
[laughs]
Michelle
Well, you know, and because this person was so emphatic and excited and kind, I was like: “I tell you what. I'll have some tomorrow. I'll make… we'll just add them into our rotation tomorrow.” And we posted about it. And what do you know? What is everybody ordering on Sunday? Old Bay Bagels, like everybody went and we kept them on the menu for the rest of the trip and people were thrilled.
Joan 46:15
Sheeple. They were Sheeple. Just kidding.
Michelle
[laughs]
Joan
They were just. It's a good thing to try. People were just adventurous in Columbus.
Michelle 46:22
It so happened that I believe there were other bagel pop-ups going on when we were there…
Amanda
[laughs]
Michelle
… and it still, it didn't matter.
Joan
But they were local. They were local to Columbus.
Michelle 46:32
You know, and we had, but in a place like Columbus it was less about “Oh my God, we're gonna get good bagels. And these people are from the East Coast, and thank God…” It was more about “Oh, this is cool, this is something going on, let me try it.” You know? It didn't have like the same weight to it, but it all.
Amanda
Wow.
Michelle
So, it made it in some ways more whimsical, but it was just as fruitful in terms of, like, the amount of business and the amount of exposure. That was interesting too, because we only got a limited amount of earned media before arriving, but when we were there, in between the weeks that we were there, that's when it really picked up. That's when, like, food bloggers were coming in and like doing their own little, like write up and taking photos and you know, it was more of a word of mouth in that way, even for a bigger city.
Amanda
Well, it sounds like in terms of… No, go on.
Michelle
No, I was just going to say smoked jalapeño cream cheese. I mean we couldn't keep it stocked.
Joan
Oh, my God. Vats of it…
Michelle 47:25
It's like, hands down [favorite]
The people of Columbus consumed more Jocus PocusTM cream cheese than we've made in years.
Amanda 47:35
So, did they put it on the Old Bay Bagel?
Michelle 47:37
Of course, because…
Amanda
Okay, hey…
Michelle
That's an interesting combo.
AmandaHost47:41
It's a very interesting combo. Well, it sounds like, in terms of it being Test City, USA you passed the final? I mean, this seems like a lot built, a lot of buildup, a lot of preparation, a lot of study, a lot of like. So much went into it and it seems like you did all right. So, what was your final learning? What, what's your big takeaway from Columbus?
Joan 48:03
It is a city of neighborhoods and for BUB to be there just would be a matter of finding which neighborhood made sense to plant us in, and also another thing by nature of working with…
Joan 48:16
And we've worked with breweries before and other such places, so the combination of our bagels with a boozy brunch has happened previously. But it was important to be in a full-service cocktail bar to demonstrate that we can, going forward, incorporate that as one model for BUB. The BUB Hub Beta in Baltimore was dry [meaning no alcohol served]. That's just like one model for doing it. And we can see ourselves having different iterations of the BUB Hub for just different locations. Some places may want it boozy, some places may just want to have us almost be like a factory and just keep churning out like all the bulk [bagels]. And just having the ability to have really talented cocktail makers work behind us on the mornings of the weekend and see what they were pairing with our stuff was just something we had wanted to do on our own, and having partners to help us with that was great, because they're very entrepreneurial at that business.
Michelle 49:06
I think the biggest takeaway was again like just finding the right fit. Sometimes you got to go with the fit that can just meet your needs. In a place like Columbus. I think we had the luxury of both time and space for it to be the whole combination - like fit with our brand, fit with our style of working, fit with the level of professionals that we were at that point, like all of those things. It just… people kind of like just took us as we were. Like, okay, this is who you say you are, this is what you've done, I'm going to take you from there. I'm not going to take you from five steps back. Or it was just like a good meeting of where we're at.
Amanda 49:51
The last stop on our Tale of Three Cities is we're going to Iowa, which I've never. I'm a snob…
Michelle
[laughs]
Amanda
I've never thought… it's just, I don't think that we do very well as a country to promote spaces that are flyover and I think it's probably a big problem. But that's another issue. But you're out there, you're going. Why? You talked a bit about how you do a lot of research into finding these places. I don't know if that's proprietary, proprietary like a formula that you use, or if you're just absorbing information, but you're finding these places. What led you to Cedar Rapids?
Joan 50:33
Well, to your point, one aspect to what we do and we do talk about this publicly is look for Bagel Deserts. Not as serious as food deserts. I mean, obviously, people can survive without bagels but life is a little bit better with our stuff.
Michelle 50:46
Depending on who do you talk to…
Joan
So, one area and also another area of growth during the pandemic was Cedar Rapids and Marion, Iowa. And they're very close to each other geographically, although they certainly have different vibes to it. Cedar Rapids is much larger. So, we ended up connecting with some stakeholders there and we had a great place to produce and sell out of in Cedar Rapids. It was a nonprofit food hall. So, we talked about food halls earlier [in the podcast season]. It was a nonprofit food hall where they had both a very large and extensive teaching kitchen, which would help us in terms of what we would need equipment-wise, and on the food hall area they had a bunch of nascent food businesses that were being incubated and I think it really helped with that organization as well, is that their leader was someone who had a food business.
Joan 51:37
She made pasta and other interesting Italian delights. So, she had background information and knew about the business side of things and had had a startup to be able to apply it for the people that they were serving that's just renters that they were also serving those folks and helping them to be able to incubate and accelerate out of the space. So, it was good seeing that all that, just like doing the research that we were doing in terms of where we can serve, who were they serving, who was in the area. But knowing that there could be a problem - unlike with Columbus and Cohoes - about the educational piece of: What is lox? Why is this bagel so chewy?
Amanda
[laughs]
Joan
How does one order?
Michelle 52:17
And in terms of [Roadshow city] selection, we do have like a pretty strict set of criteria, but it's not like many places wouldn't qualify for that. So again, it's kind of what rises to the top. Being in Cedar Rapids and out looking in that area really started our thinking about tertiary markets as a business - places that especially now… So, at this point it's the beginning of 2023, the COVID migration patterns have settled maybe a little bit and you're able to start to look at some of that data and looking at the places that were growing a lot were these kind-of secondary and tertiary markets. Because, again, you don't need to be in a huge city If that's where you had to go to work every day, that's one thing. But if you're working remotely and the schools are better somewhere else or the amenities are starting to be built somewhere else, or it's a greener place, or it starts to look a little bit more enticing. And also, we had also got put on our radar, was the kind of suburb of Marion which is right outside of Cedar Rapids, and again it comes down to people saying yes, I wrote the downtown contact there who's in charge of their economic development and connections to different places. Not only a “yes,” because sometimes they're like “well, I don't know,” but like an enthusiastic well, “let's talk. I love creative ideas and let's see what we can make happen.” And that puts you in touch with… “oh, the library has a new kitchen, maybe that's the…”
Michelle 53:44
And so, as we're out there looking at these places and we're thinking, “okay, well, what has the capacity to meet our needs for a large-scale production?” But oh my God, these people have been so lovely. Like we end up doing a satellite event, a one-day event in Marion. So, we were based in Cedar Rapids the whole time, but we actually did some, and they're not that far apart. I mean, you could have people from Marion come to Cedar Rapids. But again, it was this idea of like we got such a warm reception, there was a value fit. Let's just make it an event that can also help show off this new library. So, we tried to find those kinds of synergies. So. you go through the basic criteria and then you say “where are the yeses?” And then the yeses lead you to a scouting trip and the scouting trip leads you to viability of a place, and then you go from there.
Amanda 54:34
A little earlier you had mentioned a schedule flip. What happened?
Michelle 54:38
I think, in the end, it had to do with the food hall. So, we would… So that was the first thing. It was like - we got such a yes, “and here are some photos and here might…” We were just like - “we gotta go check this place out. These people are so immediately getting what we're trying to do and immediately on board with it.” So, we knew that's why we were so excited to kind of start the year there. But again, that ED [food hall’s Executive Director] who was running that place, knowing that market - both the market in terms of the physical location but also the market in terms of the business traffic that went through there - was like you know, guys, we have a lot better traffic in April than we do in March.
Amanda
Oh…
Michelle
You know, we have, and we have a couple things scheduled so we wanna also make sure that you have free reign of the place if you need it. But, also, here's what I think I think this could be more successful if we do it at this time.
Amanda
That’s valid.
Michelle 55:31
You know? And so, right, and so that was the thing. And then I was like okay. And then kudos to the folks in Columbus. I was like, “so instead of coming in six weeks, could we come in two weeks and flip all that around?”
Amanda
[laughs]
Michelle
And they said “yes.” And so, you know, that's how it all worked.
Amanda
That's fortunate. It's real fortunate.
Michelle
For sure. Yeah, we got some good - the karma [in the] bank. We were like it was coming back around.
Amanda 56:02
So how long were you in Iowa then? You said that this was the longest [Road]show that you were on.
Joan 56:08
The better part of a month.
Amanda
Wow.
Joan
Yeah, seriously a long time to be embedded, to get more data, to have people get more used to us, to be able to also then have some time in the evening to check out different restaurants and museums and get more of a sense of what was going on in that area and just to spend time also with some of the [Marion Public] Library people. They're like “hey, we're just having wine on a Sunday night. I'm sure you had a long day of selling, but we know that you're have prep only the next day. Come on over, let's just kibitz about the area and I'll just tell you how proud I am.” And we just hung out.
Amanda 56:41
Wow, that's great.
Michelle
The hospitality was incredible and I guess, you know, mid-western again. We're both so culturally East Coast that a lot of that was just so warm and refreshing, and… But it was tricky, too, because this, the length of time and supply chain issues were creeping up again. So, we had, I like to think about, well, not I like to, but you know, with Cohoes we had a lot of internal stuff that was going on that we had to overcome that I think most people didn't even know about and may not know about until now. With our time in Cedar Rapids, we had a lot of external factors that were just one thing after another, after another, after another that took us well into, like the first week of it, to where it was great that we were there that long, because it took us some time to get our feet under us, just because we were dealing with all of these things and some of which were good things, like we had at this point learned that we won the Lenovo Small Business Contest. We were one of those finalists.
Joan 57:48
#lenovoevolvesmall
Michelle
[laughs]
Amanda
[laughs]
Joan
#evolvesmall
Michelle 57:54
And one of the benefits of winning that, which was not even originally advertised, was that they had a new partnership with Lonely Planet, the travel company.
Amanda
Ahhh…
Michelle
And, because of the model that we were using at the time, which was, you know, strictly Roadshow, was so perfect that they sent a film crew. So, there was a lonely Planet film crew with us when we were setting up for the Iowa event, which was amazing and a great opportunity for us to really showcase what we were doing. But, also, super stressful and tricky logistically because, again, we had a delayed departure to Iowa because [speaking of herself] Michelle Bond was violently ill…
Amanda
[groans]
Michelle
… and we just couldn't get on the road.
Joan 58:48
But, also, our rental truck that we would need because we needed to bring some of our equipment.
Michelle
Oh, I forgot about that part. Oh, my God…
Joan
I think you blanked out because it was disturbing to you.
Michelle
Because I was just like…
Joan
That's what happened so…
Michelle
…drinking Gatorade in the corner, immobile.
Amanda
Ugh…
Joan 59:03
So, Amanda, when it came down to it, we had a new partnership with a company that rents trucks for business - in vans and stuff. And we, a month out, booked a more squat truck that had a lift gate because we needed to take equipment of ours, like the mixer and like convection ovens. So, teaching kitchens are really awesome kitchens, but they're all conventional ovens and we couldn't really get the product that we would want based on that. But we had the equipment, right?
Joan
Because, maybe we weren't in BUB Beta, we were able to take stuff out of storage, put it on a truck and go. When we arrived to pick up our rental truck, they only had a rental van. There is no way to get that equipment up safely, even with assistance. So that delayed us a full day because then Michelle and I had to go on the hunt for stuff to rent and we ended up having to settle for used equipment and we purchased it. So, in terms of like eating into the profits, we had to just bite the bullet and get what we needed from a place in Iowa that sells used equipment. Unfortunately, we had to use a - what size mixer, Michelle?
Michelle 01:00:22
Well…
Amanda
[laughs]
Michelle
It was originally a 30-quart mixer and it was a reasonable [price-wise]. So not ideal, but, like, at this point we're struggling, we're not moving our 60-quart [mixer] because it's just ridiculous…
Amanda
Mmm… mmm…
Michelle
…and having a 30-quart a) is more nimble, and b) is always something that we also wanted to have because we could be making cream cheeses in that while we're making dough in a bigger one. So, it wasn't like outside of the question to buy it if it was reasonable. So, we just bit the bullet and we did that. But it's day one, it's our first day it's… actually our second day. The first day we had unexpected, like surprise stuff with the health department. So that tied us up the first day. Just I mean like we weren't doing anything wrong. It was just like making sure we had all our ducks in a row, which is appropriate, but that took out a lot of first day. So, we also had new team members that we hadn't yet met, that we were bringing on board, that we had to train, that we just kept pushing back. “We're like, okay, come, don't come Tuesday afternoon, come Wednesday, don't come Wednesday afternoon.” So, there's that going on.
Michelle 01:01:28
We had the Lonely Planet people there who wanted to do our interviews, which got flipped because we also wanted to feature some folks who were from other places that we'd worked, like Cohoes and like Baltimore - their [people from those cities who were to be remotely interviewed] schedules got turned around. So, then we had to do our interviews earlier. They took up so much of the day that the crew also wanted to get footage of us making dough and we needed to start making dough because at this point we need a couple days. So finally, it's like five o'clock in the afternoon. I finally get in the first batch of dough in so we could have it ready so that the film crew could come in an hour and have something to film. And all of a sudden the mixer stops. And I'm like, “oh, it just kinda… the bowl is off of the thing or whatever.” And I go in there and I was like, “oh, the hook fell, okay.” Well, no. No, the hook snapped. The actual part of the mixer that is welded together somehow snapped in the first batch of dough and it’s not usable.
Amanda 01:02:33
I'm thinking back to our last episode where, as soon as you got off the truck, you're like “I'm making dough because we're figuring out how everything's going to operate.” And now you have lost day on day on day, and you are at the 11th hour, and the hook falls off.
Michelle
Yeah.
Amanda
And this is why you didn't remember what was going on before, because [you’re like] “I'm not thinking about this.” Oh, my goodness, this was the moment.
Michelle 01:03:00
Yeah, and you know, this is where, again, I'll say like Midwestern, like earnestness, and follow through and just do right by ya. Because I called this person this [person who sold us the equipment]. I mean, it's a business that we bought this rented piece of equipment from. Now this is like a final sale. They could have been like “oh well…” you know.
Amanda
That’s what I was expecting [you’d say].
Michelle 01:03:26
And I was like “hey, you know, this is what happened.”
And he, well, first of all he was like the fact that I was calling he's like, “oh no, what happened?” You know…
Amanda
Oh, wow.
Michelle
… And he's like, “okay, you know, I don't know what I have here [as a replacement mixer].” But turns out he has a 20-quart. So now we're going down and I mean God bless him. He was like, I was like, “I need it tonight. I was like I need it tonight, I'm sorry.” And he wasn't like far, but he I'm sure had other stuff to do, and, but he showed up in like an hour and a half with a new unit. And he swapped it out and we had to, you know, adjust the batches again. But we were making dough that night.
Amanda
Wow.
Joan 01:04:10
Okay, kids, but two things. One, he was smart for showing up because, goodness knows, by doing that we would use him when setting up shop in Iowa. Period.
Amanda 01:04:20
Absolutely, absolutely. Of course.
Joan 01:04:22
When he shows up, there was further a sense that we were a big fucking deal because there was a film crew there. So, Brother Man was on his best behavior and he was just like, oh yeah, I mean, if he puts his ears, you know what I mean Like so it, it thing. It just kind of like enhanced the fact that, like we're a big deal and in town and that he made our decision when it came to following through, probably just for the business sense. But you know, being an earnest business person but also my business in the future, but then being like “holy fuck, there are people recording these folks. He must be a big fucking deal. I'm glad I'm helping them out.”
Amanda 01:04:55
No, I think that there's a lot to be said for that, for sure, and maybe this is for Season Two [of this podcast), but I would be. I would really love to learn more about the experience with Lonely Planet, because, as great as contests are, I've found that, you know, contests are, are generosity and whatnot, but there's also promotion behind that. So not only are you working on your own agenda for getting this Roadshow, you know, up and running, but you're also dealing with another agenda which now you're kind of tied to. And I think that that's an interesting thing to explore, those kind of your wins, these wins that you make. But you know, ultimately, you know, Lonely Planet is there for Lonely Planet, right?
Michelle 01:05:42
Yeah, no there's cost, for sure, and at the very basic level, for this situation, like we were totally beholden to their schedule. And it did not like if there was any other time they could have been there, it would have been better. Because, I mean, when we're arriving in a place, we're trying to get stuff unloaded, we're trying to get the lay of the land… this is even without all these issues that we talked about. It's just a very tight turnaround and then we're trying to bring on new people. Like I mean, and so it was not ideal. And then we're talking about yeah, we're talking about the contest we're trying to make. I mean, it's not hard for us to make connections between why we're traveling with BUB and, like some of what Lonely Planet's goals are.
Michelle 01:06:23
But, to your point, it still wasn't ideal. You know. We also, I will say the final thing is we ended up having to what we've never done I don't think ever in the history of BUB which is - [to] not open…
Amanda
Oooh…
Michelle
… when we said we were gonna open. We had to open a day late because we had all these setbacks and then, and then Joan Kanner got sick.
Amanda
Oooh… [laughs]
Joan
I got sick. I got sick and this is not like getting like a head cold or like - which I wouldn't want to transfer to people anyway. I think presenteeism is especially rampant in food and there are a lot of reasons for that, including people not getting paid unless they show up. Which is probably the argument, in my opinion, for like paid time off. But I got violently ill. I can tell you all… I can tell anyone offline it's really not in this where they should not be getting a salad for their lunch and Cedar Rapids, because I got food poisoning in a way I have not experienced ever in my life. And for me to wake up violently and then tell, but being violently sick, and tell Michelle, “we are not opening tomorrow, you're going to take the crew and you guys are going to prep,” and that was pushed back. Some of the filming of like seeing us like produce I've never been that ill before, so I can be prepped.
Joan 01:07:44
Again, we can prep all we the fucking want to put all these different things in place to make something happen in Iowa and between the rental company not having the right vehicle for us, which caused us to have to buy equipment the equipment that wasn't ours but then became our, so we had to buy it breaking… I get violently ill. We end up having the health inspection. We had no heads up about.. Then thing after thing after thing was happening in Iowa. I hired four people - two of them showed up. I will say that the two people that showed up…
Michelle
Amazing.
Joan
…were fucking amazing. I would gladly give them a reference anytime. So, between that and the person that we had from home, Paul, we have like five of us and we worked really well together and that was awesome.
Amanda 01:08:33
This is the wrap up of the Roadshow Part I and Part II, and we hope that you know if there are any… You know, if you've heard some things that are really interesting, definitely revisit the previous episodes that kind of lead up to these stories and these tales. I'm curious you know where is the Roadshow now? I think people may be asking: “We heard 2023. You know, numbers out - anything for 2024 as of right now?
Joan 01:09:01
And we certainly went to other cities besides the ones that we highlighted, which is not a diss to them. We just want to make sure we were sharing stories of the places with the gnarly bits…
Amanda
[laughs]
Joan
… with the more things that went wrong. It's more interesting because, as I was mentioning in our meetings that we were having before recording, that we have a lot, a lot, a lot of content that documents the Roadshow mechanically and also the successes and the repeat customers and all that goodness. But this is our opportunity to also talk about more of the gnarly bits.
Michelle 01:09:29
Yeah, and so we do still have a Roadshow. We have nothing planned yet. We are trying to gather resources and, and put some things in place, but we are still taking nominations.
Amanda 01:09:43
We can probably put a direct link at proofingstage.com to the Roadshow application as well, which may get easier if you're driving, or what not, just remember proofingstage.com. Yeah, just hit up this episode. And yeah, nominate your city.
Joan 01:09:58
And Amanda, if you want to nominate, you have more of a direct line than most people. You can only write a 10-page essay, not 15. We’ll give you a pass…
Amanda 01:10:06
Oh, thank you. I appreciate that. Thank you. I can leave out the part about - I don't know - it being Ohio. I don't know.
Joan 01:10:14
Hey, I liked it there. I love Iowa. These are Bagel Deserts - we're here to help.
Amanda 01:10:20
This is true, this is very true. I know a place, but that's okay. Anyway, were there any additional learnings, anything else that you that were takeaways from your time on the road up till this point.
Joan 01:10:32
The BUB customer is everywhere. We are not the bagel business for everyone in terms of the products that we make. Some people like a softer bagel, some people like a different, like vibe or energy. But there are so many stomachs out there and it's just good to basically practice again, and repeat and repeat and repeat, our processes and get a chance to know, to really refine, like where our customers, who our customers are, and then to realize, like where they are. To include that when we, you know, we're in the seeking investment stage and we have been since late 2023. This just helps us focus our target audiences and gets people more excited, because how many people can, not just have an idea about a business, but have been in business for eight years? And to have tested your business out in different markets without any assistance across the US? Data, data and more data, with a side of a couple of burns and, you know, some unexpected weight loss.
Amanda
[laughs]
Michelle
[laughs]
Michelle 01:11:38
Yeah, absolutely, and I guess just you know a shout out to all of the partners that we've had along the way in these locations. I mean these things, you know… it's one thing I think I've said it over and over again but you can have an idea, you can even have a plan, you can have a track record, but you still need somebody to say “yes.” And it's been really fun to try to find those folks and have connections and have a shared experience that happens by way of the Roadshow being there. And it also goes for the team members that we've had in different places, people who've really just again said “yes” and been on board for learning something new or, or you know, being, even for a very short amount of time, part of our team. And I want to acknowledge that because it's, I think it comes back to what we're about, and certainly what BUB is about in terms of connection and community, and the whole being greater than the sum of its parts, and I think the Roadshow is a great example of that.
Amanda 01:12:41
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Amanda 01:14:11
Thank you for joining us. We’ll see you next week. What’s, what our next episode about?
What’s the final episode [for this season] about?
Michelle
[singing] We’re leading up to the final…
Joan
It’s going to be Episode 9: Points for Creativity.
Amanda
Points for Creativity. Oh, you're not going to want to miss this one. All right, we'll see you next week. Keep proofing?
Joan 01:14:18
Happy Valentine's? I don't fucking know…
Michelle 01:14:21
Yeah, I'm good at it. That's right. Share Proofing Stage with a loved one in your life and please like and follow the show so that we have some good data to plan for Season Two.
Amanda 01:14:36
For additional information, including notice and disclaimer, music credits, episode notes and more, check out our website proofingstage.com.
