What Acquiring Minds Want to Know

Alexis Grant, Founder & CEO of They Got Acquired

“What I’m passionate about is helping founders who have put their blood, sweat, and tears into these businesses, especially female founders, to walk away with as much money as they deserve,” says Alexis Grant, founder and CEO of They Got Acquired. In this episode, Lexi joins Michelle and Joan to demystify the often-underestimated art of selling a business, especially for small and underrepresented founders.

The conversation digs into why thinking of a business sale from day one can be a game-changer for small businesses, and how prepping your business for that sale often means having a better (and more fun) business to run. Lexi advocates for thinking of your business from a buyer's perspective, which doesn’t only mean revenue and profit, but also managing team dynamics and internal processes during a sale, which can sometimes put deals at risk. 

The best part? If you’re a business with a six- or seven-figure sale the payoff for years of bootstrapping and below-market salary often means more than money. Selling your business is not just an exit strategy but a launchpad for new ventures, latitude for more innovation and community empowerment. Lexi’s new data platform exemplifies this mission, providing founders with the insights they need to connect with the right buyers.

This final episode of Season 2 of Proofing Stage leaves us fired up and ready to go, providing tactics you can walk away with to:

• Consider a business sale as the strategic move 
• Tap into resources for selling your business early on
• Identify which levers to pull to make your business more appealing to buyers
• Assess operational sticking points and risks to being acquired
• Focus on profit, not just revenue
• Take learnings from your first business to position your next one for sale
• Discuss acquisition as a growth strategy for your business

Links

Connect with Alexis Grant:

https://alexisgrant.com/
https://www.linkedin.com/in/alexisgrant/
They Got Acquired

Being a Buyer Rather than a Founder

Acquiring Minds Podcast

Theme Music: Thorn Haze
Additional Music: OgifeeltheBeat, prazkhanal, juniorsoundays
Cover Art: Lisa Orye 

Ad by Joan Kanner performed by Michelle Bond
Ad music Fresh Morning

Executive Producers: Joan Kanner & Michelle Bond
Production by HiveCast.fm

Find more at proofingstage.com
Follow us on Instagram and Threads @proofingstage

Join Proofing Stage+ to support us supporting you, AND access new bonus content in-between episodes!

See Buzzsprout's Privacy Policy for listener privacy and read our disclaimer here.

Transcript

Michelle Bond (00:00.056)
Hey everybody, Michelle here. I just wanna take a quick moment to say thank you so much for listening to another season of Proofing Stage. Today we've got our last interview with an amazing, brilliant, fun guest. We're working on some things to share with you very soon, but in the meantime, I just wanted to ask if you would take one second to rate and review the show wherever you listen to pods. It's so helpful and we're so grateful. Thank you.

[cold open begins]

Joan Kanner
I don't want to be conspiratorial, but I think they actually know when to mess with a recording. 

Alexis Grant
Perhaps, yeah. [laughs]

Joan Kanner
And I think I was saying - Michelle, you know this from like the last recording that we did - I would have never scheduled anyone on the day of Fleet Week. I didn't realize it was Flag Day. We're recording with another excellent guest. And all you hear is like, I presume the Blue Angels - I think I'm using the right name - like the Blue Angels, flying through here. Zoom! And then poof [reference to sonic boom] in terms of how fast they were going constantly. So that's going be really fun for the editing team. 

Alexis Grant
There's always something, so it just mimics real life. 

Michelle Bond
Precisely.

Joan Kanner
That's so true. 

[cold open ends]

[podcast intro begins]

Michelle Bond
This is Proofing Stage with me, Michelle Bond. 

Joan Kanner
And me, Joan Kanner. We're queer female founders who over a decade ago envisioned and created products and services designed with end users in mind. Go figure.

Michelle Bond
Frustrated in our prior careers, we began to consider what all our energy and passion can do if we use it on our own terms. A company with karma as its driving force, a music app that put users in control, and for the last eight years, a bagel business. 

Joan Kanner
This podcast is about our experiences and the nitty gritty of being an underrepresented small business owner.

Just like we've worked to fill the gap in quality bagels, lox, and schmear, these conversations fill the gap of knowledge, mentorship, and straight talk that are missing from other business pods and success stories. I come to the table with a ton of customer service and compliance experience, from a sports complex startup to new university centers to many years in grants and contracts administration, not to mention social science research, including focus group and survey work.

Michelle Bond
And I've combined a passion for hospitality, communications, and PR with community development and diversity training, all with the aim of engaging others to actively show up in the spaces we all occupy. Together, we have a lot to offer, and we have a lot to learn. 

Joan Kanner
So join us and our brilliant guests in this space between "Atta girl!" and "I told you so."

[podcast intro ends]

Proofing Stage (02:37.708)
Alexis Grant is founder and CEO of They Got Acquired, a media company that features acquisitions of online businesses and the founders behind them. Welcome, Alexis. 

Alexis Grant
Hey, thanks for having me. 

Joan Kanner
Or can I call you Lexi? 

Alexis Grant
You can.

Joan Kanner
I feel so much closer.... ever since you... I so appreciate that. I feel connected to you because you also understand what it's like having disruptions to your background sound. 

Alexis Grant
Yes. Yup. Yeah. Coming into this call, I mean, lawnmowers right outside my window. So I'm just going to focus on you guys and not on what's happening out there. 

Michelle Bond
Well, Lexi, thanks so much for joining us. We're excited about this conversation for lots of reasons, not just as it relates to our business, but, you know, it seems like the things that you cover are really helpful to think about at any stage of a business, but especially at the beginning. And so I wonder if you could just tell us a little about, about you and They Got Acquired as a jumping off point.

Alexis Grant
Yeah, sure. I've got the weed whacker now. 

Michelle Bond
[laughs]

Alexis Grant
So that means it's in the final stages, at least. 

Joan Kanner
[laughs]

Alexis Grant
Yeah, so well, my background is in growing media businesses. And the one I'm working on now is called They Got Acquired and we help founders sell their business. We primarily do that through resources. We're not a brokerage, though we may do that in the future. But right now we really just provide resources for founders that want to sell and we have a data platform as well that we can talk a little bit about.

But yeah, so when I went through selling two different businesses and both times I felt like I didn't really know what I was doing and I didn't know how to find someone that could help me. So a lot of the acquisitions that we hear about in the media are these massive, huge sales. And what I've learned in the last two and a half years since launching this brand is that there's many more of us who are selling businesses in the six-, seven- and low eight-figure range. And that can be a huge win as well, especially if you bootstrapped the business and kept things lean.

So yeah, my kind of mission at the moment is really just educating founders on how that works and having helping people think about it ahead of time if possible, because if you, if you do understand how it works and you can think about it ahead of time, there's different levers that you can pull in the business that will help you sell for more. 

Michelle Bond
Wow. So a little too late here, no, no, that's amazing. And the thing that struck me...

Michelle Bond (05:06.282)
... most about what you said is just that like how to find the resources. Because I know that's a conversation always for founders and particularly underrepresented founders who just don't have maybe the same networks that, you know, folks in more traditional business programs and things like that would have. So that's wonderful. 

Alexis Grant
Yeah. And even just finding experts to help you, like advisors, for example.

You know, now I have a list of people who will help on a sale of that size, but I didn't know that existed and I didn't know how to find those people before. So we focus, at They Got Acquired we focus on online businesses specifically. So anything that's tech enabled. and yeah, like I said, six, seven low and low eight figures. And, now I have like a list of brokers and advisors that will work on that kind of thing. But I think if you're not in the field, you don't know that they even are out there. 

And like I talk to people all the time who say, "I did talk to a broker, but they're, they usually only sell mom and pop shops from Main Street," which is a different proposition than selling an online business. 

Joan Kanner
No, for sure. I would say early on. And I only I remember this because I know you're way too busy to remember, but I had reached out to you, Lexi, because I wanted to know... I got sense of your offerings that you communicate with. And I think that you said it more succinctly here than I was able to get. That I wanted to like know if you ever cover bakeries or restaurants or people in our situation, even people who have perishable CPG, which is very different than shelf-stable CPG companies. I've only noticed like tech companies that in your coverage and in your, and in your great podcast. And it's interesting to me that like you did actually have an example of occasionally covering CPG. But I think that's part of the barrier for, for especially women owned businesses for us. 

I think there's the barrier of what you make. And then there's also, I feel like that that mental barrier of like the hidden curriculum and not having access to resources like the ones you're finally putting out there to level the playing ground. 

Alexis Grant
Yeah, for sure. And I mean, a lot of the concepts still apply. It's really just different. If you if you have an online business, typically you can sell it to, you have a much bigger audience because you can sell it say to anybody anywhere. Whereas if you're selling a physical business, the person might have to live there. So it's different or just at least have a connection to the, to the geographical place. But...

Alexis Grant (07:31.938)
... a lot of the concepts still apply in terms of how do you maximize the value.

Joan Kanner
No, it's true. And there are resources. We belong to Bread Bakers Guild of America. And they somewhat recently with their new leadership were able to have a workshop about even just getting your head in the right place when it comes to acquisition. But I still see on the message boards - and I say "message boards" as I push up my glasses, of course - when they look at this. But I think some of the challenges seem to be how do you evaluate or put pricing for yourself when it comes to those things? 

I don't see this as being like the place where we talk about how much someone's cooking recipe could go for. And what's interesting for me that to this day - this includes men as well - they're having difficulty when putting down a business thinking like, but what is there a value besides this mixer behind me? And your point about what's location-based or not. A cookie recipe is not necessarily location-based, although Michelle and I both know all too well the elevation and other climatic factors like impact the value of that. So having said that, don't know if you could give us a little bit about what kind of things are of value when it comes to any sort of business? 

Alexis Grant
Yeah. I mean, we get the same questions for online businesses, by the way. 

Joan Kanner
Really? 

Alexis Grant
Yeah. Well, there's lots of people... 

Michelle Bond
Probably more so because they don't, might have less tangible stuff. 

Alexis Grant
Exactly. Is this, how much is this worth? How much is that worth? And really when it comes down to it, like at a very basic level, the, how much money, your revenue and your profit are going to heavily affect the value of the business more than anything else. So...

And I don't, I don't know how bakeries are valued. but like most businesses that we cover, they tend to sell on either like a multiple of SDE, which is seller to seller's discretionary earnings. It's basically another way to measure profit. And I'm not, I'm not an expert in all these financial terms by the way, but, or, or EBITDA, if it's a bigger business, so, but basically means profit. So the best way to increase the value of your business is to increase the profit.

Alexis Grant (09:32.63)
And increasing the revenue helps too, but only typically only so much as if your, your profit can increase as well. And like that makes sense. If you think about like, basically you want to look at it through a buyer's eyes. It's like, what makes this valuable to someone else? They want to buy something that's making money and not just making money, but making money after you pay expenses. Cause they want to bring that money home. So you, kind of want to engineer for yourself, the type of business that a buyer would want.

And the really cool thing is that most of the things that you would do to get your business ready for sale, they also benefit your business. So even if, and you personally, so even if you never sell, there's things you want to do anyways. And sometimes some of us, if we have like, if we need the kick to say, "I might need to do this ahead of a sale to get us to make the changes that are the hard changes to make." Like for example, you have an under employee, underperforming employee that's costing you a lot of money. Sometimes it's hard to get rid of that person. When you think of that, like, "oh, I'm actually going to make way more money if I don't have this person when I sell." It's sometimes easier to make those choices.

[musical interlude]

Alexis Grant (10:47.182)
I've talked to a lot of people who have taken different steps to sell their business. And then once they go through that process, they realize, like, "this is actually a better business to run." Like, I made it not dependent on me. It's the more profitable, I'm taking home more money, just a more fun business to run. And then they decide, you know, maybe I don't want to sell this after all. [laughs] Most of those folks still want to sell eventually. But I think it is... It's a process that sparks some rethinking.

Joan Kanner
When you think about mergers and acquisitions and the possibility of that sooner, how that can help you organize things and get off the fence when it comes to making some decisions, knowing that there could be such benefit and such, like windfall, sometimes capital W, sometimes lowercase. 

Alexis Grant
Yeah, absolutely. I think it just shakes up how we think about our business. And if you see it through someone else's eyes, sometimes you'll see things that are like glaring that don't look glaring to us when we're just looking at it ourselves.

Michelle Bond
Yeah, and you know, it's funny, when we... what you're describing is a lot of the process that we went through, and we were just, you know, like, we have to tighten up our operations, you know, we have to get these things in place. Because if we want to get even investment or partnership, or we want to scale, all those things are important. But you know, it's funny, we never thought about it from the angle that you address. And I wish we had because I think there's this sense, especially when you have a business that begins as a passion project... 

Alexis Grant
Mmm... hmmm.

Michelle Bond
... that you have to be at some grand sense of stability. And a lot of times it is those numbers that you get, those markers of like eight figures and above. But even before that, I think some sense of like having the operation running super smoothly in order to be able to be ready for looking at selling it. But what you're talking about is like, all of the preparation that you can help get people ready for that. You don't have to wait till you're ready to start looking to sell. You can find somebody such as yourself to help you get ready. 

Alexis Grant
Absolutely. Yeah. And I mean, think it's smart because they're all just things that you want to do for your business anyways. And many of them are easier to do ahead of time than they are in the moment when you actually want to sell. So, for example, cleaning up your books, your finances, especially if you start a business as a passion project, sometimes that gets left behind at the beginning.

Alexis Grant (13:11.402)
When you're running a business, like we all have our heads down working on so many different things that it's easy to... I mean, it makes sense that you have to let some things drop, right? But there's things like that that are relatively simple to get in order, but they do take time and doing it ahead of time can just position you much better for when you exit. I would love to hear your story though. Do you guys want to share that? 

Joan Kanner
Open book.

Michelle Bond
Sure. Yeah. So we started as a home-based business in 2015, making bagels out of our house. The goal was always a brick and mortar, we, you know, we, so we grew out of our home into church and community kitchens. Then eventually into a shared commercial kitchen, which allowed us to then do wholesaling and catering in addition to just doing farmers markets and things like that. It took us quite a while, like most people, to be able to find a location, build it out, get up and running.

So that happened squarely in the middle of COVID. [laughs]

Alexis Grant
Wow.

Michelle Bond
At that time, we were actually ready. The good thing was that we had already kind of built this cult following for almost five years of customers and things like that locally. So we had a ready-made customer base. It wasn't like we tried to open a brick and mortar with nobody having heard of us. I think that would have been just impossible to do. 

Alexis Grant
Mmm, hmmm.

Michelle Bond
But, you know, we had, we were much so basically by the time that we're opening this first location, we're already thinking about long-term scaling and things like that, but we're also already kind of burnt out. And so, then you add COVID on top of that, and then you add, we really, we got really hit in our industry with, the great resignation and supply chain and inflation and all that stuff.

Then we had some issues with our landlords and just incompatibility. So then when it came time to renew the lease, we decided to pump the brakes and take some time to do some of these things that we're talking about, like really get things in place so that we could go at it, go at it a little bit differently, a little bit more sustainably. But I, know, in this conversation, it makes me think like, that's when we should have been thinking about some of these things. 

Alexis Grant
Mmm, hmmm.

Michelle Bond
Because what we did was we basically...

Michelle Bond (15:31.886)
...went back to being a mobile business in-between looking for a new location to purchase. And, you know, eventually just came to the conclusion, you know, very recently that just the world has changed so much and we just could not find the backing that we really felt that we needed to go at it again in the way that we wanted to. Like we could basically go back to doing what we were doing, but that was basically a hamster wheel that as much as we really, really truly loved it, was just not sustainable long-term. And so now we're in this position where we're bridging that experience with, you know, sharing with other founders, some of those pitfalls and also combining our past experience that we had prior to starting this food business to try to like amplify these messages. 

Alexis Grant
Yeah, I mean, that's the story that a lot of people have is - most people don't think about this stuff really far in advance.

That's what kind of we want to educate on. But most people find us when they're in a place where like, "I've got to sell I'm totally burnt out" or something. I, you know, "I got to take care of my kid now" or you know, something changes in their life that sparks them wanting to sell. So I think in an ideal world, you think about it as an advance. But for most people, it just isn't reality. 

Michelle Bond
Well, and that's why what you said first, the first comment you made... for me, it's the "how."

Because even being through incubators and accelerator programs and everyone tell it like they spend a whole session on thinking about your exit and mapping it out and all of that. But when you're in the throes of it, you don't like that's not, I don't know, unless that's what you start off thinking like "I'm going to build this business and I'm going to sell it in five years." And, you know, I think most of us are thinking I'm going to take this as far as it can go. And then all of a sudden you realize it, you know [ack...]

Alexis Grant
Yeah, absolutely. And I mean, the people that you see doing a lot of the right things are founders who have exited previously and they start a new business because they understand what's going to matter in the end. 

Michelle Bon
Yeah, yeah. 

Alexis Grant
So that's what we kind of try to engineer that for people is like having that understanding even if you haven't exited before.

[musical interlude]

Michelle Bond (18:06.786)
And I know this varies probably a little bit by industry, but like what are some of the most important pieces that you can engineer for businesses that are looking to exit in this way long-term? 

Alexis Grant
Yeah, we can go through a few. The first that I kind of mentioned this already, but revenue and profit. And this is a tricky one because of course you want to invest in your business so that it grows. And especially if you're bootstrapping, it's always a fine line between like, "how do I make sure I'm not paying myself versus investing?"

But thinking about that once the business is established enough to sell is - how can you increase those numbers? Because a lot of the business's value is going to be based on that. And then another one is operationally making sure the business can run without you. So it is typical when you sell, often the founder is still involved in some core functions. So identifying like what are those? 

And as a next step, thinking about how you can delegate them to someone else and creating these processes so that your team can do as much as possible of the, of the work. Basically making it like transferable. Like I could pass this company over to someone else and they could do it. Another good one is making sure that the company doesn't rely heavily on your own personal brand because that makes it like almost impossible to sell. Not impossible because we have seen people do it, but it makes it very difficult. And you have to have a, a buyer who's willing to make that transition with you. And basically that's a risk for the buyer. Like say I buy your business and you are the face of the brand. And if you're not doing the marketing, no one new comes in. Like as a buyer that feels risky to me. So, that decreases the, a buyer will pay more for a business that, when you can reduce the risk. So if you're in a position where a lot of the brand revolves around you is thinking about - How can I transition it away from me either onto someone else or more onto the brand as a whole? 

And this is also tricky because I actually believe that people follow people, not brands. So especially in the early days of building a business, you actually want to have like, and a good example is our They Got Acquired Newsletter. When I first started the brand, my plan was to have the newsletter come from like the team. Cause I don't, I write some of it, but I don't put a lot of it together. And, you know, my background is in running content companies and in having teams...

Alexis Grant (20:29.198)
... create content. But I switched my tune real quick on that because I just realized I was like, "nobody wants to read from a new brand. They want to hear from a person." 

Michelle Bond
Yeah. 

Alexis Grant
And it's like so much more interesting if I can share from a personal perspective and like at least add a personal angle onto the newsletter. So in the early days, I think it makes sense to lean heavy into the personal branding piece. But then over time, we've got to transition that trust more into the brand and more into your team.

Michelle Bond
Yeah, that's a really, really good point. And I think for businesses like ours, very tricky. I mean, especially because most people... like we were I feel like very much in the minority in just how we were approaching the business, even from the beginning in terms of thinking bigger and having kind of this larger vision and not - as much as it was very much our blood, sweat and tears that were building it. Not wanting it to be about us.

You know, if you if you're a customer, you knew us, but, but publicly it was we were really trying to always talk about the team, always talk about the crew, always talk about. But, you know, we would find that - and that was easier as we grew and added more people. But it's still interesting, like many people still wanted to kind of keep it  small, if that makes sense. 

Alexis Grant
Yeah, yeah, I think that's pretty it's typical and depending on the type of business that you're running.

But definitely having a team that can carry the load makes the company more appealing. And in fact, if you are a one-person business, it can be hard to sell at all. You've got to have a team that you can pass over or at least processes someone else can follow. And it's common in acquisitions, too, for the founder to go along with the sale as well, at least for a period of time after the sale.

Either just to help with the transition or they become part of the team for a number of years at the buyer's company. So yeah, just thinking about how all that can look and making sure everything is not in your brain, it can run without you. 

Michelle Bond
No, 100%. 

Joan Kanner
To take care of your operations. 

Michelle Bond
Again, it's just good business. 

Alexis Grant
Yeah.

Joan Kanner
There's so much coming up. I just want to touch on, Michelle, unless you're on a roll.

Michelle Bond
No.

Joan Kanner (22:46.464)
I was part of the Bread Bakers Guild Association's webinar they had that was great about this. And again, I wish I could travel through time and have, you know, somehow taken that, that webinar sooner. I remember the example was Montclair Bread Company, which was like a fabulous bakery in Montclair. Some of my old haunts. One thing that came up was just the timing of telling your team with regard to the acquisition process beginning, and not telling folks it seemed like the best practice was to wait until basically, you know, things were signed over. Do you have any thoughts when it comes to that Lexi in terms of like telling these people that you brought along and that are that you're hoping that will continue to work for these new folks? Do you have any thoughts about the timing of that information? 

Alexis Grant
Yeah, it's really tricky. That is pretty much best practice is to not tell folks until you sign on the line. And there's a lot of good reasons for that.

And also, there's also exceptions. So sometimes you'll need key members of your team to participate in the deal, or they might, they might help you make it happen. It depends on really the size of your company, how many people are involved. But typically you don't, most founders don't tell the full team until they actually sell. And the biggest reason is because it's spooks, it can spook people. And even if they've been with you for a long time, if they know change is coming, then they may decide to look for something else.

And when you have a small team, if you lose a few people that actually puts the deal at risk. So you telling your team, even if like you're doing it with the best of intentions, endangers the deal itself. Typically there are people who don't believe in this, you know, and they're like, "I'm going to, I want to tell my team no matter what." And so people certainly do make that work. 

But generally speaking, it's like everything needs to be running smoothly in the business when you sell it. And if, if you. Yeah, if you tell your team, you kind of put that at risk. Also, so many deals fall through. Like, I mean, it's so common in the last phases of a deal for things to fall through, people who have been doing this for a long time almost say like, you should expect that. And if it doesn't happen, it's a good thing. But when you're, if your deal falls through and you've told your team, first of all, they know you're looking to sell. They also, they might be looking for their new job now, right? Or they find a new job and they left and now you haven't sold...

Alexis Grant (25:12.652)
...and you've lost your people and, you know, it makes it even more difficult to sell or like you have, you have to grow your team in a way you hadn't anticipated. So there's all sorts of challenges that and reasons why it is typically best practice to keep it to yourself or within a closed circle. 

Michelle Bond
Yeah. And I think, I just want to make one comment Joan... cause I know from reading some of your stuff, like see that you're, you also really focused on having people think about the buyer's perspective, which I think is really important because even if you are very even if it's a passion project, right, it's still business. You're very business minded. Like you said, I mean, we bootstrapped, we were lean, we had all the things in place that if I think we had a little bit of these tweaks or a little bit of the strategy going in that direction, it may or may not have worked out given the industry, like, to be honest, you know, but... But thinking about things from the buyers' standpoint, I feel like really helps bridge what for many people who start a business, right? The reason you start a business is because you see a need in the marketplace, you're passionate about something, you get it going, you may not have an MBA and you may not be thinking about this like buy/sell situation, but doesn't mean you still can't benefit from those types of tactics. So I think what you're providing is really valuable in that way to say, "look, you don't have to be ruthless, but here is some of the things that you want to consider because it could jeopardize you in a way that, you know, it just you can't come back from even." 

Alexis Grant
No, absolutely.

[musical interlude]

Joan Kanner (26:58.21)
This is a good time to tie into what They Got Acquired is working on next. 

Alexis Grant
Yeah, sure. Well, we - I mean, we do recommend brokers and advisors if people need somebody. And I'm happy to do that even for, even for a physical business like a bakery. I have a couple of folks that I just have come across over the years that I can share. 

But yeah, on a broader note, we are slowly putting our first users into a data platform that we've been working on for a couple of years. And the idea is, I mean, it kind of came out of when I sold, I wanted to pull examples of other businesses like mine that had sold so I could see how much they sold for and use that to figure out how much I should sell my business for. So these are called comps. And it's just like, if you think about it in real estate, it's like, you're going to sell your house. You want to know what all the houses in the neighborhood sold for.

All the bigger businesses have, you know, tons of tools like this available to them where they can pull this information. But a tool like this specifically did not exist for lower to middle market online businesses. So that's what we're building and you could use it to pull comps. But another interesting thing kind of came out of it as an evolution of the platform, which is because we've been collecting data on thousands of deals over the last few years, we can see - and we don't anonymize our data, which makes us different than a lot of other platforms that provide M&A information as they'll, they anonymize it. So they'll say, "a bakery sold for, you know, certain multiple of, SDE or whatever they measurement they use." We don't anonymize that. 


So because of that, we can see who the buyers are. So we have, founders and brokers who use our platform and they might say, I, I,
"I'm looking to sell an e-commerce business and I want to see other e-commerce businesses that have sold and what they sold for, but I also want to see who they sold to." So I can see, like identify potentially good-fit buyers based on previous acquisitions that those companies have made. 

Joan Kanner
Mmm...

Alexis Grant
Yeah. So it's, it's been a fun project and it's my background's in media and this is really more of a, it's basically a software data product. So it's been a stretch project for me, which has been fun.

Michelle Bond (29:19.564)
And that's something that is that like, is that something available to your clients or is it a subscription based or will it be, how are you thinking about, what's the model for? 

Alexis Grant
Yeah, it's a subscription product. though, I mean, we still have a lot to learn on the best way to offer it and price it, but you can see basic information at data dot theygotacquired dot com. And if you're interested, just get in touch with me. You can't even buy it through the website right now. And, there's some pricing there, but if there's a founder that, you know, isn't in a position to pay that I always encourage them to reach out to me because there might be something else we can do for them. But yes, it's a subscription product. 

Michelle Bond
No, that's amazing. It's like the ultimate matchmaking service. And I think in a, in a... I know you've touched on it a couple times, I think reiterating it bears repeating that the focus on businesses of these smaller sizes is, is invaluable. Because that's, that's one of the things that we've run up against in every aspect of the business is just like the example, like even in terms of inspiration. The inspiration that you have are people who've already done the thing and done the TED talk and standing on top of the mountain. 

Alexis Grant
Yeah.

Michelle Bond
But even when it came to real estate, the real estate programs that are established to even help small businesses acquire, we were working with one for a number of months, hoping to purchase a property in the last year. And in the middle of the process, they changed the floor purchase price of real estate to be literally twice as high, or three times as high, as what we were originally working with. And so they're just basically like, essentially like, "sorry, we're not working with businesses who are spending what you're spending anymore." I mean, I don't... 

Alexis Grant
It's so hard. I, I feel like it comes across in so many different parts of business where you have to be a certain size to take advantage of something that's offered. 

Michelle Bond
Yeah. And you have the data to back it up, the success to back it up, right? People are interested in buying businesses of these sizes? 

Alexis Grant
Absolutely. And I mean, for a founder too, it can be a huge win. I mean, if you think about a lot of the founders we cover, if they sell, have a six-figure exit, they may go on to have another [business].

Alexis Grant (31:44.046)
Or work on another business because it's not like money that's going to hold them over for the rest of their lives. You know, you sell a business for $5 million. That's a big deal to a solo founder who puts out all that money in the bank. It's kind of like poo pooed in the &A world generally. It's like, "that's a small sale." 

But the other interesting thing that's like really kind of got my curiosity recently is, you know, you hear about all these VC-backed businesses that sell for so much money. But because the founders have raised so much money, you know, they give away most of the equity and when they sell, they actually don't take home like all that much money. Right? 

Joan Kanner
Thank you...

Alexis Grant
So and actually there's a woman named Sharon Gillenwater who I've really enjoyed following both. She's on TikTok, but she's also on LinkedIn. And she sold a company called Boardroom Insiders, which we, we wrote a story about. And she's very unique in that she was open and honest about how much money she made from her business. Her business sold for $25 million. And she talked about like where all that money went and how much she took home. And basically at the end of the day, I want to say she took home, it was like eight or $9 million, which is a life-changing sum of money. And she, you know, the, the trade -off is when you bootstrap a business, of course, in the early years, often you're not taking a salary or you're taking a below market rate salary. Whereas if you raise money for a VC-backed business, typically, you're getting paid the big bucks even while you build that business. 

But just looking purely at the exit numbers at the end, it can work out very well for bootstrap founders to keep all the equity in their business if you can have an exit like that. 

Michelle Bond
Yeah, the other thing I was going to say before you made that point, but I think it goes in the same. [laughs]

It just even further proves it is like I was thinking about you gave an example of that solo founder who maybe has all the equity who gets $5 million. But then you also think about what it frees up these founders and innovators and people who've done the hardest thing - in my mind - there is to do what it frees them up to do who it frees them up to support what thing that they can start next. I mean, I would argue that that's, you know...

Michelle Bond (34:01.09)
...talk about bang for your buck, like that's, that's the way that we change industries and economies - is because you give a little bit what seems like a little bit to people who it's a lot to, who still have the drive and the desire to like yourself, right? This is your, you said your third business. 

Alexis Grant
Yeah, no, absolutely. And I mean, like one of my personal interests is supporting female founders. Like I support all founders, but I particularly like seeing women win because I believe that women need to have more money in the world. So we have more power and make more of the decisions, especially things that affect us. And like this is one tiny little way to do that, which is like, that's kind of like my like, because M&A, it's not really my space. Like, you know, I think it's interesting, but I'm like passionate about M&A. What I'm passionate about is like helping founders who have put their blood, sweat and tears into these businesses, especially female founders walk away with with as much money as they deserve. 

Because like you said, then, then women go on to support other women, right? And like they build things like some of the money that I got from my last sale, I used to start this business, which now, and now I support a ton of female founders. And like I do, I do a lot of free calls with founders who want to sell. And many of those are women. And like, even when I refer to advisors and brokers, they'll often say like, "you're getting people that we never would get without you sending them to us because we just don't have touch points with them." And especially with women who might not be in these circles. And they're focused on their own industry and building their business, not like, how do I have an exit? 

Michelle Bond
Right. 

Sharon Gillenwate
Yeah, there's definitely, there's so much potential to pay it forward. 

Michelle Bond
No, that's so exciting. I mean, that's one of the, think our first episode last season we were talking about that it's just like, for the most part, female founders, underrepresented founders have their heads down, they're grinding it out. They don't have a full team, a full slate of...

They don't have a posse...

Joan Kanner
A posse...

Michelle Bond
...to help them, you know, and but, you know, they have all of the things that you want to bet on when you want to take over a business. And they just don't have like, you know, traditionally, these conversations are happening, happening, you know, on the golf course or in the you know what I mean? Like, that's, you know, I think that's the great thing about technology and where we're at now, which is like having these kinds of spaces to to bring more women in. I think it's incredible. 

Alexis Grant
For sure. I mean, with even, when They Got Acquired, like...

Alexis Grant (36:23.288)
You know, our goal is to make it accessible. And I see us as like a bridge between the traditional M&A world and founders. And I mean, obviously I understand the pain points of founders because I am one and I've gone through it myself, but I'm kind of an outsider in the M&A world. Like they don't, I think I'm slowly gaining respect with some of those folks because they see that the work we're doing is making a difference.

[music for fauxmercial begins]

Michelle Bond (36:49.432)
This episode is brought to you by Perfectly Serviceable Title Company. Settle for less.

[music for fauxmercial ends]

Joan Kanner (37:01.452)
Intellectual property is near and to my heart. And people who have heard any other episode besides this one probably know I used to work at universities for many years. And I worked in concert... I worked in grants and contracts administration for many years in social science research. And I loved working with IP attorneys. And we have a great one for our business. When we were talking earlier about letting, letting your staff know about the business being sold, I feel like that's certainly one issue that involves discretion to be like... strategic discretion. I might hashtag that for the show notes. 

Alexis Grant
[laughs]

Joan Kanner
Who knows? I just know that stuff is what I do. But there any other aspects to NDAs like legitimate like more than just like a pinky swear. And in this process... And I in part, I also asked p because Michelle knows this as well - we were exploring different places for purchase, we had to go through an NDA process to work with brokers to look at certain properties in different states, because we have taken our business on the road as part of our market expansion. So I just want to get a sense from you. Are NDAs part of this process? 

Alexis Grant
Yeah, absolutely. I mean, typically, if a buyer wants to learn about your business, they need to sign an NDA. And if you work with a broker, they should do that as the first step. But I mean, I really think it depends on what you want your process to look like, who the buyers are, what industry you're in. Like when I, I sold a website for writers, like a content site in 2021, that was the last sale that I went through. And I mean, I shared a ton of information about my business before making anyone sign an NDA, but I guess - and it was with our competitors as well - but, I just kind of assessed the risk myself and said, you know what? I think I actually have more to gain by being open here with what I want out of this and where we are.

But certainly it really depends on your industry and what the competitive landscape is like. 

Michelle Bond
Yeah, that makes a lot of sense. I think, Joan, what you're talking about is there were certain... for a while we were thinking about acquisition as way to potentially grow the business. Yeah, you couldn't even start the conversation without signing an NDA. Because these are, for the most part, physical locations in other areas that maybe hadn't announced that they were selling or anything like that.

Alexis Grant (39:15.394)
Yeah, I mean, I think NDAs are important, but I also think everybody's a little bit too uptight. And if we could all be a little more honest, you know, and open, then we'd all benefit. It's my personal opinion, but I recognize it doesn't, doesn't work in every industry or for every business. 

Joan Kanner
Take that as your audio fiber pill listeners. 

Alexis Grant
[laughs]

Michelle Bond
[laughs]

Joan Kanner
Loosen up...

Joan Kanner
And I will just also say that when it comes to... I wish we also thought sooner about like, about acquiring another business as part of our growth plans. And I know when we were traveling to different places across the US, including Columbus, Ohio - for the first time, I met a business owner, specifically in food, who started her entrepreneurship journey through acquiring the existing meal prep business. 

Alexis Grant
Hmmm...

Joan Kanner
Of course, she hired a, so that included - to my knowledge in speaking with her... I was fascinated by this. Everyone else I know has always started stuff on their own, or they worked for a larger business that was already established. And she bought the book of clients, she bought the recipes. And I think... it sounds like [she] not just made a smooth transition to retaining those clients, but then was able to grow that and expand their offerings. 

But she started her journey by buying something that was existing and that could obviously like their logo and the other physical aspects of their IP. 

Alexis Grant
That's cool. "Entrepreneurship through Acquisition" is what they're calling it now. It's pretty hot actually. And I don't know as much about this. I'm really focused more on the selling side and supporting founders. But we do get a lot of buyers who kind of come through looking for guidance on different things. And yeah, it's a huge, it's a huge, it's still a niche, but I think it's certainly a growing industry of people who want to skip the beginning stage and buy something that's proven, or that's where their skills are better suited. Yeah, it's definitely a thing now. 

Joan Kanner
And I think I'm going to throw this in the show notes for everybody, but there's something that came up back in March and I'm going to have either PBS or an NPR reference in every episode. Sorry, not sorry. 

Michelle Bond
[laughs]

Joan Kanner
But there was something that Marketplace did with Kai Ryssdal and the crew, Sarah Leeson.

Joan Kanner(41:23.252)
And they, I will include a link to it: "For Aspiring CEOs, Being a Buyer Rather Than the Founder is an Increasingly Attractive Path." And this is something that's also being funded by those VCs that we talked about earlier. So if you're a new MBA and the ink is still wet on your diploma - there's no new ink, it's all digital. But if you're one of those people, you're now able to, boom, instantly become a CEO, which I have feelings about, but it's another way of doing things. 

Alexis Grant
Yeah, there's a really good podcast on that exact topic. It's called Acquiring Minds.

Joan Kanner
Ha!

Alexis Grant
Yeah, it's very, very well done. The interviewer is excellent. I would definitely recommend that if you're interested in going that path. 

Michelle Bond
Cool. Yes, I saw that on your list actually. [clears throat] Excuse me. No, that's great because again, like that wouldn't have appealed to me eight years ago with this business, but kind of appeals to me now, you know, and to your point earlier, too, I mean, I think knowing everything that we know, we, I mean, we're going to do something else at some point, right? So you start to then go about it differently. And, that's one of the considerations. But, you know, first and foremost, how do you, how do you build something from the beginning that can help, you know, can take care of you at the end, essentially? 

Alexis Grant
Yeah, absolutely. 

Michelle Bond
Lexi, I was wondering if there's anything else that you're, you're proofing on you're chewing on these days when it comes to being a founder yourself?

Alexis Grant
I mean, I feel like I'm chewing on everything and everything feels like an experiment to me and figuring it out. I'm two and a half years into this brand and it, I still feel like, we're testing a lot of things and figuring things out. I personally also, I think I'm always proofing, like, "how do I have the work-life balance that makes the most sense for me? And what does that look like?" 

You know, at this phase for my family, the ages of my kids, like that always feels like something I've figured out and then I have to reproof it again. [laughs] So yeah, I those are the two big things is just the platform and yeah, always tinkering around with how do I get all the work done that I need to get done while also having enough energy for my family. 

Michelle Bond
Yeah, completely. I mean, it was interesting. We had an interview with a guest that hasn't aired yet about operations, a consultant that we've worked with. And I was just asking about trends that she's seen...

Michelle Bond (43:46.302)
...in the clients that she's worked with. And I thought she was going to talk about like books or, you know, lease, lease pricing or whatever. And she, the first thing that she said was the way that people are really wanting to step away from the grind of being founders and finding a way to build a manageable business that, you know, allows them, you know, space in their life basically. 

Alexis Grant
That's such a cool trend. 

Michelle Bond
Yeah, it is. I was definitely encouraged by that. But I think we're meeting that moment, so... Any last words, Lexi? Anything else that you feel like we haven't touched on that might be helpful for folks?

Alexis Grant
I don't think so. I mean, this is interesting for me. It's a little bit different than some of the interviews that I do. So thank you guys. 

Michelle Bond
Yeah, of course. No, appreciate you. Yeah, you saying "yes" and just being up for the conversation. And there's a lot of exciting things that you're doing. And I personally look forward to staying in touch and following your work because I think it's really, really invaluable for especially female founders. But just I think that space of small business.

Because I know small business ranges, right? It could be up to 500 people, but we're really talking about, you know, businesses that are just trying to make something from nothing. So thank you. 

Alexis Grant
Yeah, absolutely.

[theme music begins]

Joan Kanner (45:30.552)
You've been listening to Proofing Stage. Our theme music, Bagels for the Kraken, was written and performed by Thorn Haze. Additional music from Pixabay. If you're looking for a transcript, show notes, disclaimers, and additional credits, they can be found on our website, proofingstage dot com. Want to join the conversation? Email us at proofingstagepod at gmail dot com. You can also find us on Instagram, threads, and TikTok at Proofing Stage. Visit our Patreon page to support the show and get even more great content. 

I'm your host Joan Kanner. And I'm your host Michelle Bond. Thanks for listening. 

[theme music ends]

Joan Kanner
You know, I'll just talk about chewing on things and grinding. I have a dental appointment after this...

Alexis Grant
Oh!
 
Joan Kanner
...and you're being really insensitive. 

Alexis Grant
[laughs]

Joan Kanner
Do not jinx me, you two...