What Qualifies You? Passion, Position, Funding & Filmmaking

Dr. Anaïs Webster Mennuti, PharmD
Co-founder of Shots With That LLC
Marie Wilda, Founder/CEO Lenkai.co 

In this week's episode Michelle and Joan sit down with producers, Anaïs and Marie, to learn more about the driving factors behind their documentary film, Harmacy, including their personal experiences and funding sought to make it happen. While Big Pharma and the opioid epidemic have flooded our culture and consciousness, less attention has been paid to pharmacies themselves - their workers, and the people they serve.

As corporate chains have elbowed out community pharmacies, pharmacists and pharmacy technicians also experience burnout, depression, anxiety, panic attacks, miscarriage, and even death. Patients experience frustration and fear of not being able to fill their prescriptions on time and the harmful repercussions that result. Our conversation looks at what it takes to bring this project (or any) to life - experience, persistence, money and connections are just the beginning.

The question of "What qualifies you?" is familiar territory for women and underrepresented leaders in every industry and position. Join us for (another) candid conversation about why shedding light is important, what it takes to be heard, and the value of just doing the thing in order to prove your concept and build momentum.

If you're thinking about any of the following, this one's for you:

• The hidden costs of things often not discussed
• Timing of pursuing a larger platform to tell your story
• Finding a team to help you flesh out a concept
• Valuing your time and effort in relation to budget
• Breaking into an industry as an outsider
• Understanding where your work fits in a larger cultural context
• Using your lived and professional experience to do something others can't

Oh, and stick around until the very end of the episode to learn about our surprise sponsor!

Connect with Harmcacy Film:
Web: Harmacy Film
Socials: @HarmacyFilm
Email for investment opportunities

Anaïs Webster Mennuti, PharmD 
Director / Producer / Co-Creator
IG: @anaiswebmen

Marie Wilda, Producer
Founder / CEO Lenkai.co (B2B Revenue Accelerator)
IG: @m_esther12
LinkedIn

Links:
Docs in Progress

Scroobious

Credits:
Theme Music by Thorn Haze

Additional Music by: AnyStyle via Pixabay & HVRGND via Pixabay

Podcast Cover Art by Lisa Orye

Ad written and performed by Joan Kanner
Ad music by: Lexin_Music via Pixabay

Produced by Joan Kanner and Michelle Bond

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Transcript

Joan Kanner (00:00)
So I don't know if I've mentioned this to many folks, but Michelle and I are in season three, which is incredible to me in all the good and bad ways of the podcast, mostly good, Initially, it was not going to be Proofing Stage in terms of like what we call the pod. We were going to go with What Qualifies You? because we thought we needed to have season one really be an explanation as to how Michelle and I have been qualified to do anything. And I feel like that's a very much like a feminine type of...

... mindset, unfortunately, that's how the patriarchy works, right? I constantly, I feel like I've been trying to explain to people like, why I'm qualified to do this pod, why I was qualified to sell them a sandwich, why I'm qualified to be able to coach them in their business journey. But I was wondering, and I think I've gotten a hint from this from your website, was there a prequel name to Harmacy?

Anaïs (00:45)
There was prequel name. I love talking about that too. Our prequel name was Would You Like Shots With That? And yeah, answer is "yes."

Joan Kanner (00:52)
I mean, the answer is "yes."

Michelle Bond (00:53)
Love it.


[podcast intro begins]

Michelle Bond
This is Proofing Stage with me, Michelle Bond. 

Joan Kanner
And me, Joan Kanner. We're queer female founders who over a decade ago envisioned and created products and services designed with end users in mind. Go figure.

Michelle Bond
Frustrated in our prior careers, we began to consider what all our energy and passion can do if we use it on our own terms. A company with karma as its driving force, a music app that put users in control, and for the last eight years, a bagel business. 

Joan Kanner
This podcast is about our experiences and the nitty gritty of being an underrepresented small business owner.

Just like we've worked to fill the gap in quality bagels, lox, and schmear, these conversations fill the gap of knowledge, mentorship, and straight talk that are missing from other business pods and success stories. 

Michelle Bond
Together, we have a lot to offer, and we have a lot to learn. 

Joan Kanner
So join us and our brilliant guests in this space between "Atta girl!" and "I told you so."

[podcast intro ends]


Anaïs (02:47)
And so I'm a pharmacist and it went from there are these giant clinics where there's lots of staffing and support and getting the

country vaccinated, which is a good thing. are pro-vax, gonna plug vaccines, cause they're good. But then that shifted into, all that's gone. Those resources are gone. Pharmacies, that's where everyone gets their shots. Continue to vaccinate the whole country. And so it really felt like you're having to upsell, like, "make sure you get that vaccine in because it was really good reimbursement." So.

companies get paid really well for vaccines. And so sometimes they focus on those at the expense of filling other prescriptions. So it really did feel like you had to do an upsell, which again, vaccines good, making people do it to meet quotas rather than doing patient-specific care and actually taking care of your folks and having the time to slow down and be like, "let me review you and make sure you're the right..." and have that tender loving care that

Michelle Bond (03:50)
Yeah.

Anaïs (03:51)
isn't good. So that's where the title came from. It's catchy, it's fun. Satire is our tone.

But then that's when we were focused mostly on the working conditions. And then we started interviewing people and we're like, this is a lot more. It's much bigger.

Marie Wilda (04:04)
The story is bigger. Yeah.

of the phrases that we've been trying to incorporate from the beginning when we're talking about the documentary is the fast foodification of pharmacy. And so that was the kind of the driver. I started reaching out early, I guess about a year in. I read the name and I knew exactly what they were doing.

Joan Kanner (04:34)
Hmm.

Michelle Bond (04:35)
Ugh.

Marie Wilda (04:50)
you know, we came on board, the fast foodification of pharmacy doesn't land as well as we thought it would. So it's more like, it's not the hook, it's not the leading, can't lead with that. But once we give people the context, and then we say, this is about the fast foodification of pharmacy, and then it kind of, clicks. So it's a supporting talking point that...

will often give when we're talking about the documentary that paints I think the more broad picture.

Anaïs (05:24)
I agree with that. It just needed to build because people were getting- we were getting a lot of comments, people being like, no, I- we already have so many problems with people being anti-vax, you're gonna make this worse for us, and we're like, no, we see you, hear you. We see you, we hear you.

Michelle Bond (05:39)
Mm-hmm. Yeah, that's true. mean, timing and the climate and all of that, obviously, I'm sure played a very big part in all of that.

Marie Wilda (05:39)
And yeah.

why we shifted from, would you like shots with that? We went to a couple of trade shows just to kind of drum up awareness, have conversations. And a few times, you know, the trade show floor, they're like, is it shots? Is it shots? Like, what is it? And then we finally got to a point where we began to bring people on the team that are from the...

It's weird to say Hollywood, but from Hollywood, so they have experience. And one of the pieces of feedback that we got early on was, would you like shots with that? Not only is it confusing, what kind of shot are you talking about, but it's a long title, right? So that was the other piece of the puzzle that drove the change.

Michelle Bond (06:22)
Mm-hmm.

Yeah.

Joan Kanner (06:33)
Mm-hmm.

Anaïs (06:39)
Yes.

Joan Kanner (06:40)
Even if it's like an acronym, think you're right. How would that work for you?

Michelle Bond (06:40)
interesting.

Marie Wilda (06:44)
Yes.

Joan Kanner (06:46)
Michelle, is your PR marketing brain on fire right now with this part of the conversation?

Michelle Bond (06:49)
Yeah, a little bit,

I kind of feel like we should take a half step back and maybe just do a little bit of how you met Anais and how the project and just to give some context,

Anaïs (07:15)
She DMed me on LinkedIn and was like, hey, I see you're working on this project. I am in marketing and might be of service. And I was like, please, we need help and need people. Because it's just basically, it was a very, very small team at that point. And I was like, anyone, please come help us. And Marie has been awesome for the past, my gosh, it's almost been two years.

Michelle Bond (07:18)
You

Marie Wilda (07:18)
She slid into the DMs.

Michelle Bond (07:44)
Wow, okay.

Marie Wilda (07:44)
Yeah, yeah, I mean, that was basically it. I read the name, I saw what they're doing. I have a little bit of experience in production, but live event production. I produced an industry pharmacy conference that was about 1,500 attendees. So I can manage the big projects, but I've never done anything creative like this. But I love.

Joan Kanner (07:54)
Mmm!

Michelle Bond (07:59)
Hmm.

Joan Kanner (08:00)
Oof.

Marie Wilda (08:08)
creatives. My dream job would have been Lorne Michaels job just running Saturday Night Live and letting people and so I want to be the guardrails for like the beautiful art of creative work and it aligned with Harmacy. I've been in that industry for about seven years so

Michelle Bond (08:16)
Right, right.

Anaïs (08:16)
Mmm, yes.

Marie Wilda (08:35)
The stars aligned and they said yes and here we are.

Michelle Bond (08:41)
Amazing. And then.

Joan Kanner (08:42)
That's awesome. I'll just say if you can be Lorne Michaels, I need to either be Paula Pell or Tina Fey, because that would be my dream job.

Michelle Bond (08:49)
Yeah.

Marie Wilda (08:49)
Would that be your dream job? Yeah. I either say Lorne Michaels or Susan Harris. She's the woman who created Golden Girls. Those were my, like, if you could do anything, regardless of what qualifies you, those would be my. Yes! my God!

Anaïs (08:49)
WHA-

Hmm.

Michelle Bond (09:08)
Joan puts a golden girl's mousepad across the screen.

Joan Kanner (09:10)
and came for triumphantly.

Marie Wilda (09:15)
Yes.

Michelle Bond (09:16)
Amazing and then Anais and Joan you all met at XOXO or how did okay?

Anaïs (09:21)
Yes. So we met at XOXO at the Filmmakers Meetup. And so it was just a little, there were just different meetups that people could go to during this conference. And we all were just going around talking about different projects. And we just started talking about Harmacy. And then you're like, I have a podcast that you may be interested in. And I was like, I love going on podcasts now.

Joan Kanner (09:26)
Mm-hmm.

Anaïs (09:49)
They're great. So please we would love to

Joan Kanner (09:52)
Yeah, and it was just so fun. two things stood out. I feel like besides like how your shit you had together, which every guest is required to have, by the way. I'm not gonna be anyone's emotional colostomy bag at this point in my life. But you guys like keep on keep on making more metaphors like that to the entire fucking time. You're welcome. I really appreciated what your energy because

Marie Wilda (10:05)
you

Joan Kanner (10:15)
At one point an emergency vehicle was like driving by and we both at the same time started doing kind of like this like roof raising. It's like, I don't know. It's like, I'm in the club. And I was just like, okay, in addition to having your shit together, you're also a cool

Anaïs (10:19)
I was doing this.

Joan Kanner (10:42)
I'm

part of this group called Scroobious, which is great for female founders to be able to get funding. It's how we've worked on our pitch deck and other things. there's been some really great rooms in terms of sessions that are really meaningful for female entrepreneurs and also people who are not female who part of the group now. It's opened up a bit. And I was so annoyed when I heard that like, I was just like, my friend, we're friends now, by the way. I was just like, has this project?

Anaïs (11:09)
Yeah, yeah, absolutely.

Marie Wilda (11:10)
Yeah.

Joan Kanner (11:11)
I sent them their higher ups to the Harmacy website. I was just like, this something that investors in your network, because basically you learn about how to do a pitch deck, you do your pitch deck, you upload it, and it's almost like a matchmaking thing. They're like, sorry, I shouldn't do that voice because they're actually very nice and very together people. Yeah, these aren't the projects that our investors on the network fund.

Marie Wilda (11:29)
I'm

Anaïs (11:30)
Yeah.

Yeah, we got get that a lot. your project's too small potatoes for us, which now that our budget is higher, we're getting more people to pay attention to us. And like as slowly as the budget has, we've actually like sat down and redone our budget. So at first it was first we didn't have a budget because I don't know anything about business and we were just kind of shooting in the dark for like a year. Once we got past that, then we when we started.

Marie Wilda (11:37)
with, yeah.

Michelle Bond (11:46)
Hmm.

Anaïs (12:03)
hiring people and bringing people on like Marie said our budget got up to $450,000 but it was still like that's cute you want to do what and then at that point yeah yep and so then they're like okay so we're like well and then we're like okay we should include because that consultant was like don't include your crowdfunding push as part of your budget but we're like we've raised like

Joan Kanner (12:14)
Blair Witch, Blair Witch 2.

Marie Wilda (12:15)
You

Mm-hmm. Yeah.

Anaïs (12:32)
$75,000 doing that. That's a lot. We can't not include it. Like it's why we're here today. It's why we have any footage. It's why we have a project. And so then we included that back in and then we realized, you know, we should like think about adding a grants portion. And so we got to around like $500,000, then it was around $578K and people were, know, interest was peaked a little more at that point. And then I'm part of a documentary fellowship.

Joan Kanner (12:41)
Mm-hmm.

Anaïs (13:01)
and my facilitator was at, it's Docs in Progress, I'll plug them, they're in DMV. Yeah, so they're local to you, but I'm in this program and they, meeting with our facilitator, he was like, your budget's really low. It's way too low, like bump, bump it up. And so we settled around $1.1M, publicly bump it up.

Joan Kanner (13:06)
Yes!

Mm-hmm. Yep.

Marie Wilda (13:22)
publicly bump it up. He said, you can make this more for less, but for anything that you're showing to anybody, increase the budget. Yeah.

Michelle Bond (13:29)
Mmm-mmm.

Anaïs (13:33)
Yep. And more people were like, this is like so timely, hot off the press call I just had today, Marie doesn't even know about it because I was talking to this person before.

Michelle Bond (13:35)
interesting.

Joan Kanner (13:41)
my God, my God, wait, let me breathe, I'm breathing. Wait, let me send away for some medications and I'll wait for it to come in and then I'll take it and then you can still be here. Okay, all right, all right, lay it on me.

Anaïs (13:47)
You'll be, you'll be waiting for years at that point. But anyway, so I had a conversation, we're doing some networking and meeting people in the industry. I had a conversation with a gentleman who's produced a lot of things on the feature side. And he, we're talking about the budget and he had gotten the original deck before we updated it with the 1.1 million. And he's like,

"that's fine." He's like, "it's still pretty low budget." And he's very interested in the project and is super supportive and he like wants to support in any way he can. But then when I was like, "I think you got our previous deck. Sorry, I sent you our old deck. We've just updated it. It's 1.1 million now." And he's like, let me write that down. Basically, the wheel started turning. He's like, "Oh, I have someone who might be a good fit. I don't want to promise anything. Like, let me just have a conversation with someone I might know who might be more interested." And I was like,

Michelle Bond (14:30)
Yeah.

Anaïs (14:44)
"Oh, okay." But we still need money.

Michelle Bond (14:46)
And is that because people want to be associated with a bigger thing or what's the thinking there? Or that you must not know what you're doing if your budget's so small or, mean, I'm just...

Marie Wilda (15:01)
think it's a mix. think that it's people, one, budget so small, they don't know what they're doing. But then, you know, the other piece that I have a sneaking suspicion about is

The pricing strategy, if you give away something for free, there must be no inherent value in it. So the idea that it's lower priced, the value's not there, they're not gonna be able to bring it across the finish line. And I think some of it is wanting to be associated with the next big Netflix hit, the next Tiger King or whatever it is.

Joan Kanner (15:18)
Mm-hmm.

Michelle Bond (15:21)
Hmm.

Joan Kanner (15:21)
Mm-hmm.

Anaïs (15:38)
Yeah.

Joan Kanner (15:39)
like Man on Wire, but okay.

Marie Wilda (15:41)
But I think it's a mix, know, they want to be part of something big and then there's a value, yeah.

Anaïs (15:42)
Yes.

Joan Kanner (15:42)
It's in your deck. It's in your deck. Yeah.

Anaïs (15:45)
it is in our deck.

Michelle Bond (15:50)
Yeah. Well, I mean, it's, you know, completely different, but it's one of the reasons why we never gave away, discounted bagels at the end of the day. no matter, you know, yeah. But I mean, we would freeze them and we would sell them, you know, at a discount that way, but we wouldn't just like say the same thing that you could have bought an hour ago at full price. Now you can buy, for next to nothing or we'll just give it to you, you know,

Marie Wilda (15:57)
Yeah.

Anaïs (15:58)
Hmm.

Joan Kanner (16:00)
Because that.

Marie Wilda (16:14)
Yeah.

Anaïs (16:14)
Hmm.

Joan Kanner (16:15)
that shits on labor. And that's also why we had an open floor plan because we wanted to make sure people can see the invisible labor of the people working on dough. The front of house people are effing amazing, but it would also increase the people's thinking about, that really is authentic. There's a sixty quart mixer. There's someone working their ass off behind the scenes.

Marie Wilda (16:31)
Yeah.

Anaïs (16:34)
So that reminds me of our very first podcast we went on when it, our team has like done, because again, it's labor of love. So we've had lots of different iterations. So the friend who helped like was the catalyst to getting it like off the ground, her name was Kim. So she and I did a podcast and we're talking about our GoFundMe and it was like the day we were launching our GoFundMe was the day this podcast was gonna drop. And the host,

Joan Kanner (16:46)
Hmm? Hmm? Hmm?

Michelle Bond (16:58)
wow.

Joan Kanner (16:58)
Hmm.

Anaïs (16:59)
Mike Kelzer for the Business of Pharmacy podcast, he was talking about like, for your GoFundMe, are you going to like do any giveaways or like, are there any like prizes, things like that? And we're like, no, the documentary is the prize. And he's like, yeah, he was just like, yes. He's like, exactly. He's like, I'm so glad you said that. Please. Like he said, you have to value your labor. You have to value your product. And we were like super excited when he said that because he got he's like.

Marie Wilda (17:11)
Surprise.

Joan Kanner (17:17)
Thank

Michelle Bond (17:20)
Yeah!

Anaïs (17:26)
no, he got it.

And so because pharmacy, that's the problem. They expect everyone to give everything away for free. And so it's, there's a lot of unpaid labor within our industry, which is a problem because we're already doing, we're not even necessarily always paid for enough money to dispense the prescriptions, let alone everything else that goes along with it. Like you may.

say it costs you 10 bucks to put a thing on your shelf and be able to fill someone's prescription, the insurance company is like, here's $7. And so you're like, I can't even buy the drug, let alone do anything else for a lot of these companies. And so that is literally the story of pharmacy as an industry too, is just a lot of unpaid labor.

Michelle Bond (18:01)
Hmm.

Anaïs (18:22)
It made me think of something else that just happened to Marie and I recently when we were bumping the budget. It's when we were talking to someone about a budget consultation at Docs in Progress and they saw our line item for ourselves and how little it was. And then Chris is like, that's so low, bump that up. You may end up paying yourself that, but don't aim for that because that is

Joan Kanner (18:28)
Mm-hmm.

Hmm?

Michelle Bond (18:37)
they saw.

Marie Wilda (18:40)
yeah!

Michelle Bond (18:45)
Yeah.

Joan Kanner (18:51)
Thank

Anaïs (18:52)
so low people are gonna be like, they going back to the point of they don't know what they're doing. They don't value themselves. Like he's like, if this project takes you five years, you're really gonna pay yourself $25,000 for the whole thing. And we're like, "yes." And he's like, no, I.

Michelle Bond (19:07)
Hahaha!

Marie Wilda (19:09)
we were building it the first time around, were like, is that too high? Are we asking for too much? It's ridiculous. Yeah.

Anaïs (19:13)
Yeah, we were!

Michelle Bond (19:13)
my gosh.

Anaïs (19:16)
It is, it is. Like, looking back, we were just like, no, we can't put that in there. And then now we're like, okay, yes, we can.

Michelle Bond (19:22)
Yeah.

Joan Kanner (19:23)
Because that doesn't even include like paying yourselves back, which you are turning profit. Is that correct?

Anaïs (19:28)
That one will be before we, like it's when we break our escrow point that we'll pay ourselves. So we haven't paid ourselves anything yet, but it's just like, it's even before we turn a profit, we are going to pay for the labor from the past three years.

Joan Kanner (19:36)
Okay.

Michelle Bond (19:43)
Hmm.

Yeah.

Joan Kanner (19:46)
I think people understand that when comes to product development. Going back to the world of medications, Michelle, you know, people who've worked for Roche, I know people working for some the local companies, and a lot of money goes into R &D. When it comes to project like this, it is going to be sweat equity, but then there's also going to be people taking from their savings, from their other salaries, doing things in the margins of the day, and then hoping that one, no one has the same...

like Harmacy, out there IP-wise, which I mentioned to you, Anais, in person. I'm like, who has this title? But then too, your topic stays relevant. And I think like in your case, I think you do have the wind at back still in terms of like relevance.

Anaïs (20:16)
Yes. Yes.

Yes.

Yes, definitely.


[trailer begins]

Joan Kanner
Do you ever feel like you're getting in your own way? 

Kait Klusewitz
Where I struggle is in offering too much. Offering too much for too little money or knowing that I don't want to do a thing, but offering to do it. I have this weird compulsion to prioritize other people's convenience before it's even asked of me. 

Joan Kanner
And you're just so tired of... questioning yourself.

Caroline Lampinen
Like it's really, really easy to gaslight yourself into being like, "this isn't important. Like I'm not doing so many other things that I can be doing." 

Joan Kanner
Or maybe you're struggling with... professional envy. 

RescuePoetix™
I have this saying that when I see someone else's success doing something that I dream of doing, or I have dreamt of doing, the first thing I say is: "That is not my path. That is not the path I'm on." 

Joan Kanner
With regular doses of Proofing Stage, you'll sound like a more empowered you - in no time!

Erin Stampp
I want to remind people that we can't give away our power, that we all have power. We influence people every day. 

Joan Kanner
Benefits [to listening to Proofing Stage] include: validation, tips for growth and strategies for dealing with BS. 

Alexis Grant
That's the story that a lot of people have is - most people don't think about this stuff really far in advance. And that's what kind of we want to educate on. 

Joan Kanner
Side effects may include: non-compliance with dumbass rules, frequent urge to shut down mansplainers, realizing you have power, creating your own coven, random acts of self-compassion, sudden-onset validation, delegating. 

Sounds like we're worth a try! So listen to and share Proofing Stage, the business podcast where even the side effects have an upside.


[trailer ends]


Michelle Bond (22:17)
Can you talk a little bit about the project? You know, we're obviously a passion project, right? And we've talked about this a lot on the pod too, because it directly ties to valuing your time and things and paying yourself in ways that.

you know, seem totally reasonable or, maybe a little modest, but you realize like if, if this thing, same thing with us, like when we were getting our, when we were putting our pitch together, we're like, okay, these, these, these numbers need to reflect reality that we would pay anybody else to do like 75% of what we're doing, you know? And otherwise like it's a different kind of conversation. But anyway, I digress, but, but talk about the project a little bit and just kind of the

the spark of the moment when you were like, yeah, this is something that needs to get done. And also I know we've talked a little bit about hitting costs and things, and that's something that we're really sensitive to because I feel like anything that most well-intentioned enjoy and maybe don't think twice to, there's a lot of stuff going on in the background that I think, and this is one of the things about documentary as a tool, right? That like shedding light on really

can have an impact as to way that people think about things and the way that they support or don't support, or advocate or protest or whatever for different things. So just, I guess, a chance to just talk about the project like you would at any kind of introductory level.

Anaïs (23:46)
I the

I want to kick that to Marie because have been moments where you've been like, surely this is the thing that takes us out, right? And now you're finally like, this is happening. I feel like speak to that transition.

Michelle Bond (23:54)
Mmm.

Marie Wilda (23:54)
Yeah.

Yeah. So I guess I'm the pessimist of the team, right? So everybody's got an angle. I'm always like, can we trust them?" And that's why I absolutely, I adore our team. We've worked really hard to build a strong culture of candor and transparency. Anais is just relentlessly optimistic, very trusting, and she loves people.

Joan Kanner (24:26)
Oof.

Marie Wilda (24:30)
every time something didn't quite go as planned or we weren't, know, five days prior, we didn't have the funding to get to the protest and, you know, people just shit, like they're like, you're making a documentary. What are you talking about? The doors have always opened, right?

And so literally I didn't make Sundance. I was very disappointed. A tear or two might have...

dropped, right? But then what we found was the week and a half that I spent filling out that application basically built the entire foundation for every grant application, just anything that we could possibly need a write-up for or an application for that served as the purpose. And so it's evolved since then. I guess my takeaway

throughout this project is the work that you're doing might not serve the immediate purpose that you think it's going to, but you're chipping away at this block to create your ultimate whatever vision.

It is on Anais' baby, right? But this is everybody's story. It's not just.

pharmacies, it's an American healthcare consumer story because we go into the pharmacy, we have challenges. And if you are not covered, you don't have Medicaid, you don't have Medicare, you're not commercially insured, sometimes the pharmacy is the only place you can go unless you want to sacrifice thousands of dollars to go to the ER or go to urgent care.

Michelle Bond (26:27)
Mm.

Marie Wilda (26:28)
I'm the pessimist and every time I thought this was the nail in the coffin, it worked out some kind of way.

Anaïs (26:38)
Mm-hmm.

Michelle Bond (26:39)
I guess where my thought goes with this too is that, Joan talked earlier about the wind being at your back and you're talking about like even at every turn where there could have been a dead end, know, that the phoenix finds a way to carry on. And in what you just said, Marie, about who among us

Marie Wilda (26:52)
Yeah.

Michelle Bond (26:58)
goes into even a supermarket, right? And the pharmacy is not the most crowded place and so I guess, the timing for sure, because we're just culturally in a different moment as well than, know, obviously, we have before, but I mean, have on the documentary scene, have there been other people trying to tell the story? And if yes,

Or no, I mean, what's your differentiator. I think clearly you're bringing all kinds of stuff to it and it says your team too. Like you said, this is everybody's story. So I'm just curious about what that story is, maybe for each of you or however you want to answer it.

Anaïs (27:38)
So we love talking about this as a team, because we get that question all the time. So there's two things going on. One is no one knows the difference in the general public, seems, between big pharma and pharmacy. So everyone's like, there's a thousand big pharma documentaries. And we're like, yes, but that's like a, that's a separate industry that we're not even talking about. So there's that. there's.

Joan Kanner (27:54)
Hmm.

Anaïs (28:02)
because pharmacy is often forgotten about because like Marie said, we don't self promote as a profession. And so we kind of just people forget about us. So there's that. So it's a part of the, can plug into that conversation because it's like people love the big pharma documentaries. And so we're like, cool, this is like an adjacent industry. You'll also be interested in this as far as actually making this documentary. It's a very interesting journey. We're like the fifth team who's tried and to make a documentary.

Marie Wilda (28:28)
That's right.

Anaïs (28:30)
Other people have wanted to do it and just have not gotten as far. And it's honestly because my friend Kim knew Ethan, our original cinematographer, and we were just like, "Fuck it, let's get a camera." We got some money from this GoFundMe. Like it was really amazing GoFundMe. Like within three weeks we had $22,000 and we're like, "We're getting on the road with a camera." We've spent all spring and summer doing Zoom interviews with people.

Michelle Bond (28:30)
Wow.

Anaïs (28:56)
We're fucking going. And so that's what like made us go because a lot of the other teams tried to do it more traditionally. Finding a producer to try to do it, trying to like do it on the very straight and narrow, which is "very pharmacist" of them to try to do it that way. But it didn't click because we, as we've learned, it's very hard to get producers, production companies, et cetera, to pay attention to you until you have a lot of stuff.

Joan Kanner (29:26)
The end.

Anaïs (29:26)
And now that there's like some traction, there are currently three pharmacy documentaries in production, but we are all taking a totally different angle. One is focusing like just on the patient story. We're focusing kind of that big picture, a lot of different angles, like patient pharmacist system future. And then there's one that's just focused on the pharmacy benefit manager. So that middle man of healthcare pharmacy insurance.

Marie Wilda (29:27)
Mm-hmm.

Joan Kanner (29:58)
This just speaks to like knowing the future.

Marie Wilda (29:58)
We like to say that We like to say that there's more than enough pie for everybody. We've heard, my gosh, why are you still, there's 100 documentaries on big pharma, there's 100 documentaries on football. There can be three documentaries about pharmacy that all take different perspectives.

Anaïs (30:03)
Thanks.

Joan Kanner (30:18)
But so important to know, but you're telling me, first of all, it seems like none of you are really are from this industry. So you're already are such matter, subject matter experts and what you've already done. Then you're adding this onto all things that you know about. And I think it's really important for people to hear that you're getting a sense of the field of like, what's already out there. I'd really be concerned if you didn't know how many there are. I mean, ultimately, the answer is still the same. There's enough for everyone. But you're doing things in a way that's specific to you.

Anaïs (30:41)
I

Michelle Bond (30:47)
the point about just getting out there and doing it too, when we were talking about the what qualifies you idea, that came from something somebody flat out asked me at our first pop-up with our bagel concept. was like, what qualifies you to be making bagels? And my answer was literally, because I'm doing it.

Marie Wilda (31:05)
I'm like, where do I start?

Michelle Bond (31:12)
That's, that reminds me so much of just what you, you all described as your approach of just, got to just get out there and do that. Have your proof of concept, bring people along as you build and expand and evolve. And then people who jump on later will feel like they were always there, but it doesn't matter. Like you need people at different stages.

Anaïs (31:33)
Mm-hmm. So true.

Marie Wilda (31:34)
And it's funny, under that, what qualifies you? So I'm the only non-pharmacist on that core production team. came at it. So I come at it from a completely different perspective, but I get that all the time when I'm talking about pharmacy. And it's funny because I can tell people the ins and outs of running the pharmacy from the business side, but I couldn't, I don't know a single clinical...

piece of information, right? And so there's a lot of that, well, how can you contribute to the story? How can you? I was like, well, I actually have nearly a decade of experience working in specifically independent pharmacy. So there's a lot of qualification. I'm not a clinician, but I bring a lot to the table. that, what qualifies you? Every time I hear you guys say that phrase, it kind of infuriates me. get a little...

neck sweat.

Michelle Bond (32:43)
As you both know, we like to ask what our guests are proofing on. Obviously a bread metaphor, but for anybody doing interesting, passionate, difficult work,

and just also having a life, that answer can take many forms. So I'm wondering what you all are proofing on.

Anaïs (33:01)
the project, of course, so we're proofing the documentary as well, the film and the book portion of it. Then in my personal life, I am a writer in all different types of forms. So I'm also currently working on a couple of screenplays with my writing partner, Courtney. We have a horror script called

"Baaaaaaby" with a Bunch of A's is our working title and it's about a mother with postpartum depression who gets lost in a remote forest and a supernatural being tries to steal her newborn to replace its dead baby. And so that's that script. We're also working on a Christmas screenplay, "Christmas in July", and it is about a director who lives in a town that's handcrafted for year round film production.

Michelle Bond (33:38)
Wow.

Anaïs (33:52)
and she falls in love with her K-pop leading man.

Michelle Bond (33:56)
my goodness.

Joan Kanner (33:58)
Whenever you need casting for that, let me know. I know the perfect person to fawn over the K-Pop star.

Michelle Bond (34:07)
Perfect Perfect, perfect. Joan, anything else?

Anaïs (34:09)
So yeah.

Joan Kanner (34:13)
I'm going to be following up with Anais separately because of my screenplay writing desires. They're completely different. I feel like there's not enough romantic comedies and more diverse in terms of queerness and other things. mean, but still ready for a Lifetime or a Hallmark. There's also a sci-fi thing called Karmic Messenger.

Anaïs (34:28)
Yes, yes.

Joan Kanner (34:37)
And it involves things like an incubus or two, succubus or two, putting it out there.

Anaïs (34:40)
Ooh, nice, nice. No, that's amazing. We are very, my writing partner, she is a lesbian. And so we love getting all those like queer themes in there. We're like, there's not enough. We're like, we'll start with, as we're breaking in, we're like, we do have to kind of follow into, we're like, we'll go with the typical heteronormative Christmas story. But we're like, our spinoff, we're like, we got some side characters who are falling in love, so.

Joan Kanner (34:58)
Hmm?

Anaïs (35:10)
We're excited for our spinoff.

Michelle Bond (35:10)
tweet.

Joan Kanner (35:11)
I'm so glad because like in the one that's more comedic, I have a bunch of old people banging constantly, whereas like the people who are our age or younger are just like having feelings.

Anaïs (35:22)
Yep. No, that'll be great. No, we love that.

What are you proofing, Marie? I shouldn't answer. I'm not the host. Yeah.

Michelle Bond (35:27)
All right. well, go ahead. Yeah.

Joan Kanner (35:30)
What's happening here? This is so turning tables!

Marie Wilda (35:34)
Okay, so what am I proofing? The obvious answer is the documentary, supporting Anais and the rest of the team on this creative journey. honestly, the rest of my time is spent running my own business.

which is probably an episode of its own. But the, guess for fun, I'm doing two things. My partner and I have started baking sourdough, which is exhausting. And so the proofing question made me smile and I sent it to him and I was like, look at this, look what we're doing.

the other thing is I'm proofing for my business. I'm really into events. That's been a thread throughout my career, probably the last 20 years. So I ran a 16 week polo season in South Florida. I did the conference at PDS. And so I'm trying to develop an event offering or like a brand activation offering for my.

company, right? So something turnkey for smaller businesses to create a more engaging atmosphere when they're on the trade show floor, when they're at the conference, because the days of just scanning your badge and making sales, it's over. So you have to be a little bit more creative. You have to be a little bit more thoughtful in how you approach people you want to do business with. And that's what I'm proofing on.

Joan Kanner (36:40)
Mm-hmm.

Marie Wilda (37:04)
in my business. So that's like three answers.

Michelle Bond (37:06)
Do you want to say what your business is or what it does?

Marie Wilda (37:08)
my business is lenkai.co. That's the name and the website address. And I'm a B2B revenue consultant.

What I do is I serve B2B businesses and helping them. One, if they're launching a new product, how do you start that revenue stream? If you are flailing and you're not sure how to get back on track in terms of your revenue goals. So marketing, sales, and then obviously in-person event activations. So lenkai.co, that's me.

Joan Kanner (37:40)
which you'll find in the show notes.

Anaïs (37:42)
If you want to follow our progress, you can follow along at Harmacy Film. We're on Instagram, Facebook, LinkedIn, and TikTok and the website formerly known as Twitter. We're still there. That's where we started. So we're like, well, we'll just go with it. And, our email address is producer at shots with that. So you can always.

Michelle Bond (37:56)
Yeah.

Anaïs (38:04)
Shoot us an email if you want. These will be in the show notes too, so you don't have to frantically write everything. But yeah, following us and spreading the word about our project and just letting people know that we do have an audience. does, the bigger our platform is, the easier it is for us to get things like a book deal or in getting this series to the screen as well. following along and also money, I won't shy away from it.

Joan Kanner (38:07)
Thank

Anaïs (38:31)
If you've got it, please, we'll give it back. That's the goal is to make money. So we'll give it back. But like, yes.

Michelle Bond (38:41)
Love it.

Joan Kanner (38:41)
Yeah, giving it back with interest does make sense. I hope that everyone who's listening in and who reads more about harmacy realizes that these are people who have their shit together. I know a lot of folks who do go to Indiegogo and other places and they'll get some really cool camping gear, which I don't judge and have benefited from. Or they will do other things, but just think about how approachable and honest and direct and smart, Marie and Anais and their team are. Think about how much this subject touches so many people's lives.

I can't think of anyone in my life who hasn't been touched by this issue and I'll be getting my vaccines tomorrow. So, and I'm sure they'll offer me things I can't have. You ready for shingles? I'm like, shut up. No. Bite your tongue.

Anaïs (39:20)
Not yet, not yet. Yes. I guess that's another good plug is pharmacy story. So we're trying, we have a lot of, we have a link on our website. It's called Share Your Story. And we would love to get perspectives from folks, whether that's in, if you happen to be a pharmacist who's listening, or we love getting more patient and client stories. What is your experience at your pharmacy? What is your experience...

Michelle Bond (39:21)
Not quite yet, a few years off.

Anaïs (39:48)
... with your pharmacy insurance company? We want the good, the bad, and the ugly. So like if you've got stories about how your life is affected by pharmacy, going over to harmasyfilm.com and click on the link for share your story. And we just use that as an organizational tool. So we kind of know trends of what's going on out there.

Michelle Bond (40:08)
That's super. That's I think really important in a way that people can be engaged, you know, at different stages of things. So thank you for sharing that.

Joan Kanner (40:18)
So I definitely know, I tried to like raise, try to. I did, I really did try to for my mobile app, Fugue, which helped you listen to music that you want and to forget why you don't. And I feel like I had other challenges there, but the one thing I had going for me is that the app was scalable.

When it came to Bottoms Up Bagels, Michelle, know this really well, we had an amazing pitch deck, but scaling something that's still going to be physical to some degree seemed to be like a challenge, as we both know, in terms of having production facilities and whatnot. And one thing about Harmacy, it does involve so much work. There's nothing about this episode that tells you, it's going to be easy to talk to a couple of pharmacists, you're a pharmacist, high five, high five. Get some stories in, make sure that you have your data points and your research right.

But you folks actually have something where you do need a lot of information and funding when the product needs funding to finish. But the finished product is so highly scalable. I think that people need to get that in their mind too, in terms of their angles for fundraising for themselves.

Michelle Bond (41:27)
Well said.

Well, thank you so much for hanging with us and for saying yes and sharing your journey and ups and downs. And we're excited to follow along and engage and share all the information. And I separately have a lot of pharmacists in my family. So I'm going to be sharing that link about sharing stories. Cause yeah, I think it'd be, I just think it's an interesting.

Anaïs (41:47)
Ooh, good morning. Yes.

Michelle Bond (41:54)
that tool, but I mean the project itself necessary and I just congratulations for all of the work thus far and we wish you all the best on continuing to Raise those funds from

Anaïs (42:09)
Thank you. Yeah, this has been amazing. Thank you for having us on and yeah, we'll definitely be in touch.

[theme music begins]

Joan Kanner
You've been listening to Proofing Stage. Our theme music, Bagels for the Kraken, was written and performed by Thorn Haze. Additional music from Pixabay. If you're looking for a transcript, show notes, disclaimers, and additional credits, they can be found on our website, proofingstage dot com. Want to join the conversation? Email us at proofingstagepod at gmail dot com. You can also find us on Instagram, threads, and TikTok at Proofing Stage. Visit our Patreon page to support the show and get even more great content. 

I'm your host Joan Kanner. And I'm your host Michelle Bond. Thanks for listening. 

[theme music ends]

Joan Kanner (42:58)
This episode is brought to you by semaglutides.

Anaïs (43:02)
Yeah. Yeah.

Joan Kanner (43:04)
"Joan, you're so crazy..." No, really, it is.